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View Full Version : The right to sue spammers for $1,000 per message


efernandez_98
06-13-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted @ c|net news.com

<b class="a5">Bill would let spamees sue spammers</b> (give individuals the right to sue spammers for $1,000 per message)
By <a href="mailto:declan.mccullagh@cnet.com?subject=FEEDBACK: Bill would let spamees sue spammers" onclick="location.replace(this.href+'&redirected');return false">Declan McCullagh</a>

Staff Writer, CNET News.com<br>
June 12, 2003, 7:21 PM PT<br />
<b>A pair of unusual political allies, a left-wing Democrat and a conservative religious group, teamed up on Thursday in Washington's latest bid to rid the Internet of spam.</b>

<a href="http://www.senate.gov/~schumer/">Sen. Chuck Schumer</a> of New York joined with the <a href="http://www.cc.org/">Christian Coalition</a> to announce support for a new bill that would create a national "Do Not Spam" registry of e-mail addresses and, unlike other federal proposals to date, give individuals the right to sue spammers for $1,000 per unlawful message.

In a second unusual twist, Schumer's Stop Pornography and Abusive Marketing (SPAM) Act generally requires that unsolicited commercial e-mail include "ADV"--for advertisement--in subject lines. But the SPAM bill has been questioned because certain industry groups, such as the Direct Marketing Association, could qualify for a loophole that would permit them to send bulk e-mail without placing ADV on their messages.

Schumer's proposal has also been criticized because it could endanger legitimate Internet services such as "anonymous remailers" and would give marketers access to the complete do-not-spam list.

At a press conference on Capitol Hill on Thursday, Schumer stressed that pornographic spam was piling up in e-mail in-boxes so quickly that prompt action by Congress was necessary.

"The avalanche of pornography being sent to kids by spammers makes checking e-mail on par with watching an X-rated movie," Schumer said in a statement. "America's children have been under attack for a long time, from violent TV shows, racy music videos and now pornographic spam. The V-chip gave parents control of the TV. My SPAM Act will give them control over the computer."

Christian Coalition of America president Roberta Combs said the SPAM Act would "go a long way to stop the filth of pornography junk e-mail that our children and grandchildren are receiving every day on the Internet...I urge the U.S. Senate to act immediately to end the blight of unwanted Internet pornography."

Schumer's efforts come as Congress is facing a deluge of antispam bills. In April, Sen. Conrad Burns, R-Mont., <newslink id="996412">introduced</newslink> his antispam bill, and key House Republicans <newslink id="1009467">are backing</newslink> a bill that promises to slap the worst bulk e-mailers with prison terms and millions of dollars in fines. Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., has a bill that pushes <a href="/2010-1071-998513.html?tag=nl" title="A modest proposal to end spam -- Monday, Apr 28, 2003">ADV</a> tags, but without a do-not-spam registry. On Wednesday, the Federal Trade Commission <a href="/2100-1028-1015517.html?tag=nl" title="FTC seeks broad powers to fight spam -- Wednesday, Jun 11, 2003">announced its own plan</a> to turn its investigators into spam cops. Sen. Mark Dayton, D-Ohio, <a href="http://www.senate.gov/~dayton/releases/2003/03/2003306813.html">has also proposed</a> a do-not-spam list.

Schumer's bill, however, is the only proposal so far in Congress that would let any "recipient adversely affected by a violation of this act" bring a lawsuit in state court that would recover statutory damages of up to $1,000 per e-mail message. Internet service providers would be immune from such lawsuits, and class action suits would not be permitted.

For Schumer, the fight against spam has become personal. He told a conference in Washington recently that his 14-year-old daughter was inundated with <a href="/2100-1028-999020.html?tag=nl" title="Lawmakers: It's open season on spam -- Thursday, May 1, 2003">spam promoting pornographic Web sites</a> and that he was "utterly amazed" to learn that no federal criminal laws existed to punish that practice. In response, Schumer said, he asked his staff to prepare this bill creating a national do-not-spam list. Also in April, the New Democrats <a href="http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251513&kaid=131&subid=192">proposed</a> a similar idea that would be "modeled on the 'Do Not Call' list currently under development" by the FTC.


<B>Letting the fox guard the henhouse?</B><BR />
Ray Everett-Church, a privacy consultant at ePrivacyGroup.com and a board member of the <a href="http://www.cauce.org/">Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email</a>, said Schumer's bill is probably the most promising so far but added that a successful do-not-spam list will be tricky. According to the SPAM Act, the FTC is required to create the registry and hand copies of it "to marketers for the purpose of complying."

"How do you give marketers access to the list without the list falling into the wrong hands?" Everett-Church said. "That's going to require enormous resources and security requirements. If that list falls into the wrong hands, it would be an extremely valuable list... There are a lot of practical management and security issues that would have to be addressed before people would trust a do-not-spam list."

The SPAM Act says that the FTC has six months to "issue regulations for establishing and maintaining the registry, providing secure distribution of the registry to marketers for the purpose of complying with this section, protecting the registry from unauthorized use, and enforcing the provisions of this section."

A second problem, Everett-Church said, is that the bill would regulate specific technologies, and underlying protocols or standards may change. "Laws should focus on what is the harmful thing that's being done," Everett-Church said. "In the case of spam, it's a really a question of cost-shifting from the sender to the recipient. If there were a law against shifting the cost of advertising onto the recipients, then you could go after junk faxes, spam and (wireless) spam."

For instance, Schumer's bill only regulates spam sent to e-mail addresses with "domain names" after the @ sign. But the Internet standard for e-mail (<a href="http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc822.html">RFC 822</a>) permits numeric Internet addresses--also called domain-literals--to be used in messages. That means an e-mail sent to recipient@example.com would be regulated, but one sent to the same address at recipient@[192.0.34.166] would not be.

<a href="http://www.freehaven.net/~arma/cv.html">Roger Dingledine</a>, a cryptographer and founder of Moria Research Labs, said the wording of Schumer's bill is so broad that it could imperil "anonymous remailers."

An anonymous remailer is typically a free Internet service that strips off information identifying the sender of an e-mail message and forwards it to the recipient anonymously.

Remailers have been harshly criticized by governments in the past, but their supporters point out that anonymity can be of use to whistle-blowers, human rights activists and people living under repressive regimes.

Section 206 of the SPAM Act says it "shall be unlawful for any person to initiate the transmission of commercial electronic mail...without identifying the valid, physical address of the sender in a clear and conspicuous manner."

Anonymous remailers could be banned depending on what the word "initiate" means, Dingledine said. "Since it's unclear whether legitimate services such as anonymity systems count as initiators, I think it's critical that Mr. Schumer clarify what he's trying to do. He should go after the spammer, not the Internet infrastructure."

The SPAM Act would also permit parents to register their child's address for a special do-not-spam list, restrict spambots that crawl Web sites looking for addresses and require the FTC to let certain industry "self-regulatory organizations" permit their members to send bulk e-mail without ADV tags. Like every other antispam bill in Congress, it does not apply to spam sent by nonprofit groups, charities or politicians.

Personally, I think this is really good news!!! :luxhello

3dGameMan
06-13-2003, 02:13 PM
SPAMers will not like it, but yea... SPAM is making many go insane. Personally I get thousands, thankfully I use http://www.cloudmark.com which helps A LOT :thumb

efernandez_98
06-13-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by 3dGameMan
SPAMers will not like it, but yea... SPAM is making many go insane. Personally I get thousands, thankfully I use http://www.cloudmark.com which helps A LOT :thumb I agree, that's a good tool; however, wouldn't you like to turn tails on the spamographers and start making money on them?

wazman
06-13-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by efernandez_98
I agree, that's a good tool; however, wouldn't you like to turn tails on the spamographers and start making money on them?

Nah, mostly I'd just like to go after them with a hammer...

Or some other blunt instrument...

tantousha
06-13-2003, 02:35 PM
Hmmm...I sure hope the spam we do here isn't part of this bill....hehe...I'd be in debt like $10 million!

Heh, yeah I get like 100 junk emails a day and it is getting really annoying...grr...time to make some money

efernandez_98
06-13-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by tantousha
Hmmm...I sure hope the spam we do here isn't part of this bill....hehe...I'd be in debt like $10 million!

Heh, yeah I get like 100 junk emails a day and it is getting really annoying...grr...time to make some money Wait a minute... I think you have it backwards. YOU would have the right to sue the people sending the spam.

wazman
06-13-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by efernandez_98
Wait a minute... I think you have it backwards. YOU would have the right to sue the people sending the spam.

He's talking about us spamming on the forum... Would the lurkers have the right to sue us?

tantousha
06-13-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by wazman
He's talking about us spamming on the forum... Would the lurkers have the right to sue us?

Uh-oh...

/me cowers in fear in corner of forums, staring out into the blackness looking the lurkers looming around

efernandez_98
06-13-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by wazman
He's talking about us spamming on the forum... Would the lurkers have the right to sue us? Hmm... I don't think so. If they subscribed to a thread for email updates, then whether or not they like it they are requesting an email sent any time a thread is updated regardless of the content.

tantousha
06-13-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by efernandez_98
Hmm... I don't think so. If they subscribed to a thread for email updates, then whether or not they like it they are requesting an email sent any time a thread is updated regardless of the content.

Yeah..I know...I was just joking because we call our meaningless posts spam...hee...better hide the Spame thrower before the feds see it....

thephenom
06-13-2003, 03:45 PM
/Phenom slowly takes hands off the keyboard
/Phenom reads the article carefully.

Ahhhh..... the OTHER kind of spam, not the ones that come out from my fingers. :devil

tantousha
06-13-2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by thephenom
/Phenom slowly takes hands off the keyboard
/Phenom reads the article carefully.

Ahhhh..... the OTHER kind of spam, not the ones that come out from my fingers. :devil



mmmm..SPAM!!!

Methinks this calls for a sighting of http://www.freeadpower.org/~mrsmiles/contrib/tweetz/spam4.gif

zilla
06-13-2003, 04:06 PM
this would be one of the best things to have happened in the email world.. omg....
i get so much crap.. i spend like 20 min lookin thru the crap to find 1 email thats important.... then ill deleat at least 1 a day that i want to save

BTW thanx 3DGM for the cloudmark proggie ive been toying with it and its Great...... i am no longer scared to check my email....:banana :banana :banana :banana :banana

:banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana



TY:Beer

Race234
06-13-2003, 06:37 PM
YES!!! money... money.. money :luxhello

JCYC5
06-13-2003, 06:50 PM
YES!!! spam... spam.. spam

efernandez_98
06-13-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by JCYC5
YES!!! spam... spam.. spam Yup, you can turn in Spam for Money.

Tivon
06-13-2003, 07:07 PM
Just think if that was used in forums.

egarrard
06-14-2003, 01:48 AM
1) You have to be able to afford to bring a lawsuit against them.
2) Only the lawyers will make any money off this.
3)Why else would Chuck Schumer have joined up with the Christian Coalition? :lmao

wazman
06-14-2003, 06:45 AM
Yeah... I would think it could be kind of difficult to track a lot of these people down unless you really knew how to do it and what to look for...

While this is a good idea in theory, I don't know that we'll see that much of it in practice until more people are skilled enough to know what to look for... Otherwise, with all the spoofed addresses out there, Hotmail, Yahoo, and AOL will be sued about once every 27 seconds...

Silent_Death911
06-14-2003, 09:11 AM
efer...if that applied to these forums...youd be in a debt of -$1000000!! :lmao :rofl2 :rofl2 :rofl2 :rofl2 :lmao :rofl2 :lmao :rofl2

Orangepeel
06-14-2003, 09:35 AM
Sounds good to me!

The only spam I like are the ones I've subscribed to, like the Victoria Secret catalogue. They have good sales sometimes :).

Thank you cloudmark :hail ... I can get rid of the spam telling me how to increase the size of body parts and lose weight :lmao.

zilla
06-14-2003, 10:36 AM
yea i like the victoria sectets stuff too.....
where did you sign up?????

"victorias Big secret: How to get my wife into one of those little things? 2 or 3 might fit.. but 1......."


yea as far as spam goes... it sucksssssssssssssssssss....

Artcwolf
06-14-2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by efernandez_98
Yup, you can turn in Spam for Money.

/me sues efer

Orangepeel
06-14-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by zilla
yea i like the victoria sectets stuff too.....
where did you sign up?????

"victorias Big secret: How to get my wife into one of those little things? 2 or 3 might fit.. but 1......."


yea as far as spam goes... it sucksssssssssssssssssss....

Signed up on the website. Ordered a catalogue and gave them my email address and whatnot, so it's spam that I don't mind seeping into my inbox ;).

JCYC5
06-14-2003, 07:17 PM
Can't buy Victoria's Secret over here... :Crying

redphoenix
06-14-2003, 09:16 PM
Im going to rich :):D
woo 900 posts

But yeah I want this to happen. Spam SUCKS simple as that!

efernandez_98
06-15-2003, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by Orangepeel
Thank you cloudmark :hail ... I can get rid of the spam telling me how to increase the size of body parts and lose weight :lmao. You get those too? yeah, I am almost tempted in signing up to increase my breast size.

SteveO
06-15-2003, 02:14 PM
I personaly dont like the loophole in the bill. spam is spam whether its from a porn site or from x10.com

Tivon
11-05-2008, 02:42 AM
Poll Removed.. Let it die already. :)