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View Full Version : Dulce Et Decorum Est, pro patria mori.


neutralz
08-29-2003, 07:27 AM
Whee. finally promoted to a 3rd Sergeant rank after a load of training.
ZZzz.


Just last week, somebody died and my friend was a witness of it. thank god i didnt have to go through such a course, unlike advanced elements of the army.

This was what my friend wrote about his experience.

__________________________________________________
For the ill-informed I went for the 80th Combat Survival Training held by the commandos over at ******. The advance element, namely scouts, snipers & recce troopers, of various units and commandos attended this course. Lasting around 2 weeks, basic survival skills as well as pow (prisoner of war) behavior was taught. These knowledge were then put to use in a 1-week ****** survival phase.

The first 3 days at ****** comprised of jungle survival in groups of 10 for external units and 3 for commandos. Simply put it was just like a scaled-down version of Jungle Confidence Course. It was bearable living with minimal food and inadequate shelter for those 3 days. At the end of the 3rd day, we were tasked to navigate our way to a different spot as a form of transition into the pow phase of our training.

We were 'captured' so as to speak before 1st light on the 4th day. With our hands bound behind our backs with nylon rope and blindfolded, we were frog-marched to another unknown area. Over there we were labelled numerically. Subsequently over the course of the day the interrogations began.

To make us spill the beans our bodies were thrust into a large water tank, blindfolds & handcuffs intact of course, and held underwater by a few commando rangers. This is known as the infamous "water treatment", where pows are nearly drowned in order to extract information. This submergence into water is not done once, mind you, but 4 times on average.

After we have drank our fill of swamp water in the tank there were other forms of torturing such as leg raises, jerry-can physical training, worm crawling in mud and singing communist songs.

Of the 130-odd pows 'captured' around 30 commandos escaped, and 6 were hospitalised for water in the lungs. I managed to survive this incident unscathed. However a 2nd sergeant from **** was not so fortunate.

He passed away that day at about 1817. He was also the one mentioned somewhat briefly in the papers.

It is astounding how the death of a 19-year old NSF can be glazed over with such brevity without even letting the cause of his departure come to light. Although I do not know him personally, I know for certain he was someone's son, and could have been someone's brother, boyfriend, comrade or close friend. I know he could have had a bright future ahead of him after finishing his national service.. I know there could have been great things he would have done.

Yet an insignificant article in the papers have brought an end to all that.

He had done no wrong. He was, after all, following what the course required him to do. He was just following a simulated scenario. What had he done to warrant the end of his life when the line between fantasy and reality was meaninglessly breached?

Being part of the chaos & mayhem that day I shudder to think how any one of us could have been him.
__________________________________________________


The Geneva convention protects POWS, and prevent them from suffering ill treatment during war time.

But in times of peace, training had failed to consider safety, and the convention.

As quoted from one of our generals last time, "Do not die for your country, give the enemy a chance to die for theirs instead"

I think it would have been really sad, if somebody had to knock on a parent's door, handing over a piece of identity disc, telling him that his son had "died for the country".

Countless deaths have resulted from peace time trainings.
Were these deaths necessary? And were these deaths well explained? Unfortunately no. I m sure the parents of the 19yr old second sergeant didnt know how their son was tortured, and how he died in pain. They just knew their son "died for the country", when an officer went down to their home to break the news to them.

Died for the country. Honorably? or due to ill treatment? Human errors? stupid mistakes?

Dulce et decorum est. Pro patria mori.

bejohnson
08-29-2003, 07:49 AM
I'm sure they will be an inquirey into the death. Speaking as a former CO, You try to train your men as best as humanlly possible and as safely as possible. You want them to be able to handle any situation. Survival training is brutal because in the real life senario the enemy does not play by the rule so you must be prepared. Sometime training accidents occur. Preventable, probably. Forseen probably not. That still doesn't releave the CO of the responsibility. If it was a punishable accident will be determined. Every CO that is worth a damn lives for his men. The rank and file do the job. Any CO that dosen't treat his men with respect is not worth the round that it takes to frag him.

efernandez_98
08-29-2003, 09:42 AM
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" It is sweet and glorius to die for one's country. I will always have the deepest respect to those who serve to defend our country, no matter during times of peace or war.

I don't think people understand the seriousness involved in definding our country. The days where men are handed a rifle to point in a particular direction are long over. Like bejohnson said, "You try to train your men as best as humanlly possible and as safely as possible". Unfortunately, the totality of war is not something that can be easily trained for... however, without the level of professionalism which is a result of miltary training many hundred of lives could be easily toss away. I believe there is not one life that should be disregarded. However, the seriousness of these training are necessary to avoid the unecessary loss of life during extreme times of war. That it isn't to say that accidents where serious injury or even death aren't going to happen in times of peace or war.

My heart goes out to the young man and everyone who has died during their tenure in the miltary. Futhermore, I offer my deepest respect to those men and women that have elected to defend our country.

tantousha
08-29-2003, 08:49 PM
Man o man... dolce et decorum est reminds me of a poem that pretty much sums up what I think about this whole thing.

I mean..sure it is glorious to die for ones countries and principles...but to die in your own country..in the hands of your own country...during peace...well...that's just downright sad.

tantousha
08-29-2003, 09:07 PM
Ah here it is...I found the poem by Wilfred Owen. He was a writer that got drafted for WWI and he wrote about his experiences in this poem:

Ducle Et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! --- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime ---
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,---
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

-- Wilfred Owen

Maro
08-31-2003, 08:57 PM
Sadly ,

Wilfried Owen was killed in Action shortly after he had written that poem -

Prescience?

It is bad news that this poor Sgt died - I know that Training has to be rigorous but there should definitely be Medics on hand in the instances that these "Interrogations" occur.

There would have been no intentional malice but you can picture the scenario and know that something went horribly wrong.


RIP


:( :( :(