Air Force Academy Command Problems

[blpeterson]

The Air Force Academy which has had several sexual assault scandals and command problems announced the following:

26 September, 2003, 2349 ZULU

AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. -- Air Force Academy cadets who break rules on alcohol use will be treated like anyone else in the military under a tough new policy following the school's sexual assault scandal.

Punishments could include reprimands, loss of privileges, brig time, forfeiture of pay and reduction in rank, school officials told The Associated Press on Friday.

In the past, cadets got demerits and had to march around the academy for lengthy periods if they were caught violating alcohol rules.

Commanders also intend to hold senior cadets more strictly responsible for the actions of their fellow cadets, even if they are not directly involved in wrongdoing.

"It will be the same policy every other person faces in the military," said Tech. Sgt. Dean Miller, an academy spokesman.

Any violation of drinking rules will result in a three-month conduct probation, which means limited privileges. A second violation could result in expulsion or other punishments.

Alcohol rules ban drinking in dormitories, underage drinking or possession of alcohol, providing alcohol to someone underage, "excessive use of alcohol to the discredit of the armed forces," and "failing to exercise leadership responsibilities in the presence of underage drinking.

Alcohol was involved in 40 percent of the 142 sexual assault cases at the academy in the past decade, according to an Air Force inquiry completed in June.

Miller said the academy commandant, Brig. Gen. Johnny Weida, had written to cadets earlier this month warning of the impending changes.

"This policy change is necessary because alcohol has been a major contributing factor in cadet criminal misconduct, including sexual assaults, battery and integrity offenses involving cadets over the past several years," Weida wrote.

I would like your opinion as young adults. Will this help and what else would you as a young adult recommend? A very strict military command would do the job but these young men and women are supposed to be the next Air Force leaders and should not require someone to guide them. What do you think?

[efernandez_98]

Originally posted by blpeterson
The Air Force Academy which has had several sexual assault scandals and command problems announced the following:

I would like your opinion as young adults. Will this help and what else would you as a young adult recommend? A very strict military command would do the job but these young men and women are supposed to be the next Air Force leaders and should not require someone to guide them. What do you think? I think is basic miltary "intelligence" at its best. :rolleyes: Thinking that enforcing stricter rules on alchol usage will reduce sexual assault.

Okay... "Alcohol rules ban underage drinking or possession of alcohol, providing alcohol to someone underage, "excessive use of alcohol to the discredit of the armed forces," and "failing to exercise leadership responsibilities in the presence of underage drinking." I can totally agree that the punishment fits the crime because that is an abuse of alchol -- hands down.

However, "drinking in dormitories" :What the :Sigh :Nope

That is obviously way off and implies drinking a bottle of beer causes one to immediately sexually assault another. That's pure baulderdash. Perhaps if the Air Forces thought sexual assault was a problem that they should include anti-harassment classes into their training, have stricter rules on social conduct, and increase the punishment on sexual assault.

It has been established that sexually coercive behavior to be associated with characteristics of irresponsibility, lack of social conscience, values legitimizing aggression against women, and a need for dominance. This is an visceral problem of the individual's though process and behavoir which would need to be curbed through psychiatric reconditioning not through the inhibitance of alchol.

That is the same lame thinking that initated the National prohibition of alcohol from 1920 to 1933. There are many papers describing why prohibition is a failure. It adds to the problems it was intended to solve and supplanted other ways of addressing problems. The only beneficiaries of prohibition were bootleggers and crime bosses.

[Tivon]

Of all the people that should not drink... Air Force.

My tax dollar better not pay someone to drink on the job!

When they are off base that is their own problem!

If they do the crime they should dam well do the time!

Lock'em up and kick'em out I say!

There are always better people out there that don't drink.http://acns.fsu.edu/~jmaynard/3GM/nonono.gif

[Gadget421]

I lived in the springs for on and off for the last 10 years and the academy needs serious improvment in the leadership area.
It is not just drinking those kids have problems with. Some of them were the heaviest drug users I have seen anywhere. The students are treating the place like a regular school and it is not. It needs to ran more by the book than it is. But with cutbacks the school has no where near the staff it needs.
---------cut--------
Alcohol was involved in 40 percent of the 142 sexual assault cases at the academy in the past decade, according to an Air Force inquiry completed in June.
---------cut---------

That is just nuts!!! over one "incident" a month for the last 10 years! I never read about any of them in the paper when I lived down there. Less than half where drinking related. what are the reasons for the rest of them...

[bejohnson]

Since this is a military service academy. Why shouldn't the cadets be held to the same standard as the rank and file military personnel? Remember these are not public education facilities and discipline is number one in the military. Alcohol is forbidden at West Point and Annapolis with severe penalties for possession on campus. Even if you are aware of someone's possession and do not report it. You are guilty of an honor's code infraction.

Another question, is this a conducive atmosphere to develop leadership skills necessary for military service and command. And does the Air Force's handling of the situation go far enough in the investigation of the leadership and command of the Air Force Academy and its oversight panel. In short, there have been command and staff changes at the academy. Was this enough or an example of too little too late?

Brandi and I are both seasoned commanders and fully agree on a course of action. We are reserving our opinions until later as we want to hear yours.

[egarrard]

I think the key phrase is this one: "It will be the same policy every other person faces in the military," said Tech. Sgt. Dean Miller, an academy spokesman.
The implication is that the standards at the academy were somewhat relaxed as opposed to the rest of the military training facilities. THat probably contributed to their problems. The cadets knew the Academy wasn't a state college when they enrolled. I have no problem requiring them to hold to the standard of discipline of the parent organization they fall under. And suffer the same penalties for any infraction.

[Maniacmous]

If anything....I say that it should be more strict in the Academy than it is in the regular military. I feel that in order to maintain order and command a unit of men, one would have to be in full control of themself, and without the proper tied structure to gain said control, they would be unable (because of the age-group hormones, lack of proper maturities, etc.) to do such on their own.

For this reason...I suspect that strengthening the reigns on Academy students is a better idea than even holding them to an equal standard with the rest of the military...perhaps it will force even more of a "cream rises to the top" effect, improving military leadership and responsibility through the command structure, leading to a subsequent improvement in the service overall.

[Maro]

Originally posted by egarrard
I think the key phrase is this one:
The implication is that the standards at the academy were somewhat relaxed as opposed to the rest of the military training facilities. THat probably contributed to their problems. The cadets knew the Academy wasn't a state college when they enrolled. I have no problem requiring them to hold to the standard of discipline of the parent organization they fall under. And suffer the same penalties for any infraction.

The problem in the Military is that there is a belief that "Boys will be Boys" and that civilian laws shouldn;t apply. Needless to say, I can imagine a few crusty old Generals wondering what the fuss is all about.

Whilst I accept that the military is unusual in some regards, there simply is no excuse - if some of the brass were aware o fthe problem they should be sent to Leavenworth.

It is simply Sickening

[gotenks8]

Yeah the U.S. military does kinda have a history of loking the other way and avoidin the problem until its so big it explodes in thier face! i.e. WW1 and birth control LOL

[efernandez_98]

Originally posted by bejohnson
Since this is a military service academy. Why shouldn't the cadets be held to the same standard as the rank and file military personnel? Remember these are not public education facilities and discipline is number one in the military. Alcohol is forbidden at West Point and Annapolis with severe penalties for possession on campus. Even if you are aware of someone's possession and do not report it. You are guilty of an honor's code infraction.

Another question, is this a conducive atmosphere to develop leadership skills necessary for military service and command. And does the Air Force's handling of the situation go far enough in the investigation of the leadership and command of the Air Force Academy and its oversight panel. In short, there have been command and staff changes at the academy. Was this enough or an example of too little too late?

Brandi and I are both seasoned commanders and fully agree on a course of action. We are reserving our opinions until later as we want to hear yours. I think a lot of folks are missing the point. It seems that the Air Force Acadamy's primary concern is reducing the incidence of sexual assualt. However, they aren't doing anything about it by enforcing stricter rules on alchol. Instead, all they are doing is reacting to a commonality to their problem. [ sarcasm] Why don't they ban shoes, I bet if they did their research that they'd find a higher percentage of "shoes involved in the 142 sexual assault cases." [ /sarcasm]

I'm not saying the rules they are enforcing on alchol are unjust or unwarranted. However, passing those rules under the guise it would be a solution to their sexual assault problems is complete and udder baulderdash. Even if they completely prohibited the use of alchol usage throughout a cadets entire tenure, that still would not cause much effect to their sexual assault problem.

Again, I should reiterate, "It has been established that sexually coercive behavior to be associated with characteristics of irresponsibility, lack of social conscience, values legitimizing aggression against women, and a need for dominance. This is an visceral problem of the individual's thought process and behavoir which would need to be curbed through psychiatric reconditioning not through the inhibitance of alchol."

Instead if they are really serious in addressing the sexual assault problem then they should include anti-harassment classes into their training, have stricter rules on social conduct, and increase the punishment on sexual assault.

[Maro]

Originally posted by efernandez_98
I think a lot of folks are missing the point. It seems that the Air Force Acadamy's primary concern is reducing the incidence of sexual assualt. However, they aren't doing anything about it by enforcing stricter rules on alchol. Instead, all they are doing is reacting to a commonality to their problem. [ sarcasm] Why don't they ban shoes, I bet if they did their research that they'd find a higher percentage of "shoes involved in the 142 sexual assault cases." [ /sarcasm]

I'm not saying the rules they are enforcing on alchol are unjust or unwarranted. However, passing those rules under the guise it would be a solution to their sexual assault problems is complete and udder baulderdash. Even if they completely prohibited the use of alchol usage throughout a cadets entire tenure, that still would not cause much effect to their sexual assault problem.

Again, I should reiterate, "It has been established that sexually coercive behavior to be associated with characteristics of irresponsibility, lack of social conscience, values legitimizing aggression against women, and a need for dominance. This is an visceral problem of the individual's thought process and behavoir which would need to be curbed through psychiatric reconditioning not through the inhibitance of alchol."

Instead if they are really serious in addressing the sexual assault problem then they should include anti-harassment classes into their training, have stricter rules on social conduct, and increase the punishment on sexual assault.

Word Eferz!

:thumb

[thephenom]

Drinking is drinking, sexual assault is sexual assault.

Alchohol might be involved with the sexual assault cases, but it does NOT mean it's a DIRECT cause. Unless it's proven that it is the DIRECT cause, it shouldn't be banned.

I understand that underage drinking shouldn't be allowed, but when you are legal to drink, it's established that at that age, people are responsible enough to know what they are doing. Obviously actions should be taken if it was irresponsible drinking, but other than that, there shouldn't be much of a limitation to it.

[Maro]

Originally posted by thephenom
Drinking is drinking, sexual assault is sexual assault.

Alchohol might be involved with the sexual assault cases, but it does NOT mean it's a DIRECT cause. Unless it's proven that it is the DIRECT cause, it shouldn't be banned.

I understand that underage drinking shouldn't be allowed, but when you are legal to drink, it's established that at that age, people are responsible enough to know what they are doing. Obviously actions should be taken if it was irresponsible drinking, but other than that, there shouldn't be much of a limitation to it.

I Don't think the Drinking will make much difference - the Cretins that do this sort of things are borderline Sociopaths anyway - it would only take another trigger for them to do it. These are the sort of Freaks who would lose control if they were left alone with a girl

*****s

[Maro]

Man I said I.D.I.O.T.S

[efernandez_98]

Originally posted by bejohnson
Brandi and I are both seasoned commanders and fully agree on a course of action. We are reserving our opinions until later as we want to hear yours. so, care to share yet?

[Maniacmous]

Originally posted by efernandez_98
so, care to share yet?

Believe it or not...I've still been wondering the same thing, even after all this long.

[wazman]

Just one point: alcohol does lower inhibitions. So someone may do things under the influence of alcohol that they wouldn't normally do otherwise.

Why not let college kids bring beers into the classroom? Why not sip a cold one at your desk at about 3pm every day? Why doesn't the President do some Tequila Shooters right after he walks into the Oval Office?

Because they're not where they are to drink. If they want to drink, let them do it at home or in bars, like the rest of us.

I personally would like to see alcohol in its entirety become much rarer and go away... I don't drink and I don't like people who do. I've had more than enough of that in my life. So anything to help that is fine by me.

And for those of you that say sexual assault is a psychological problem, perhaps it is, but the alcohol only exacerbates it. Like I said, people do things under the influence that they wouldn't do otherwise. So I say this is a good thing, no matter how stupid some people might think it is.

[bejohnson]

Sorry Guys,

She's been busy and I suffer from CRS.

We both agree that the atmosphere at the AF Academy was very lax as compared to the other service academies. This laxness was not conducive to proper conduct because it did not instill discipline, integrity, honor or respect. These four cornerstones are the essence of a military officer and should be for all people. One must remember that these kids are no different than any other college age kid when they report to the academy. It takes the correct atmosphere to teach them the core values above and military discipline.

The Staff at the academy failed in this. This was their duty and as such it was mission failure. Add to that there was covert and overt sexism in the command. The Air Force has historically been like a men’s club. The staff was replaced which would have been the first step. I would have filed charges and forced an article 32 hearing. This is similar to a grand jury proceeding. From the reports that I’ve read the charges of dereliction of duty and conduct unbecoming of an officer would have led to a court-marshal and been convictable. A conviction at court-marshal would serve as notice to the new administration that this type of behavior would not be condoned under any circumstance and they better keep a tight rein on the command.

As far as the cadets are concerned not only would I institute the same rules that are in effect at the other academies but I would place the entire school on restriction and probation. By doing this everyone is made to suffer the consequences of the actions of a few. While this may seem unfair and would be in a public or private school you must remember that these are military institutions. By making all responsible you enforce the establishment of an honor code system which by it’s very nature will build honor and integrity. This action would also force the majority of the cadets, which are innocent to not ignore honor code transgression, and the guilty parties presence would not be tolerated. The solution has to come from within the cadet corps and the best way of doing that is making the cadets as a whole accountable.

I think extensive training in gender relations is also called for both sexes. Kids at this age tend to think of themselves not of others. In the military you must function as a team and that team is composed of men and women. Men have to learn that women are not sex objects for their enjoyment and the women have to learn to be their own person and to have the backbone to stand up for themselves.

[bejohnson]

Originally posted by wazman
Just one point: alcohol does lower inhibitions. So someone may do things under the influence of alcohol that they wouldn't normally do otherwise.

Why not let college kids bring beers into the classroom? Why not sip a cold one at your desk at about 3pm every day? Why doesn't the President do some Tequila Shooters right after he walks into the Oval Office?

Because they're not where they are to drink. If they want to drink, let them do it at home or in bars, like the rest of us.

I personally would like to see alcohol in its entirety become much rarer and go away... I don't drink and I don't like people who do. I've had more than enough of that in my life. So anything to help that is fine by me.

And for those of you that say sexual assault is a psychological problem, perhaps it is, but the alcohol only exacerbates it. Like I said, people do things under the influence that they wouldn't do otherwise. So I say this is a good thing, no matter how stupid some people might think it is.

Alcohol in a military setting is forbidden at all times. The students at the service academys are almost all under the age of 21. By law there can be no drinking. If a student drinks then he or she has broken the law and should be subject to disciplinary action that could include expulsion.

[efernandez_98]

Originally posted by bejohnson
Alcohol in a military setting is forbidden at all times. The students at the service academys are almost all under the age of 21. By law there can be no drinking. If a student drinks then he or she has broken the law and should be subject to disciplinary action that could include expulsion. I'm in a good mood, its my birthday... so instead of expulsion, I say they be court-martialed and be subjected to a firing line if found guilty.

[Maniacmous]

And I support Capital Punishment for parking tickets....right bejohnson? ;) :lmao

[bejohnson]

Call me a Hard-Ass other people have.:) Brandi is one also. She runs a tight ship and her crew respects her and think the world of her. I ask one rating how he felt and he replied, "She's hard as nails, thorough, but above all else she’s fair.” The CMC says he’s never had a tighter crew. Those are the starting qualities for command.

[wazman]

I'm a big believer in consequences. Always know the consequences of your actions (if possible). That's responsibility.

I say that if the rules are broken, no matter who broke them, the punishment should be the same. No favorites, no lucky breaks... Everyone should have the same punishment.

If these kids don't know the consequences of their actions by now, then their parents failed to teach them right. And if they don't know the consequences, then they should be punished just like everyone else.

That's just how I was brought up. There are consequences to everything, and if you're not ready to handle the consequences, don't do the action.

[Maro]

Originally posted by wazman
I'm a big believer in consequences. Always know the consequences of your actions (if possible). That's responsibility.

I say that if the rules are broken, no matter who broke them, the punishment should be the same. No favorites, no lucky breaks... Everyone should have the same punishment.

If these kids don't know the consequences of their actions by now, then their parents failed to teach them right. And if they don't know the consequences, then they should be punished just like everyone else.

That's just how I was brought up. There are consequences to everything, and if you're not ready to handle the consequences, don't do the action.


It's probably not just the Parents fault - it is today's disposable society - everyone gets what they want, when they want it. The military is having huge problems with kids joining up and being smarta#ses and the like. They have no discipline.

I always wanted to join the RAF - went to cadets etc. Unfortunately it was not to be but I look back on my time in teh cadets with fond memories as it made me the person I am - I have respect for my elders and respect for myself.

Unfortunately, there seems to be more ands more of this with kids having the attention span of a gnat.

They also take no responsibility for their actions


Man , I feel like an old fart now - I'm only 29!:jawsdown :jawsdown

[bejohnson]

Originally posted by Maro
It's probably not just the Parents fault - it is today's disposable society - everyone gets what they want, when they want it. The military is having huge problems with kids joining up and being smarta#ses and the like. They have no discipline.

I always wanted to join the RAF - went to cadets etc. Unfortunately it was not to be but I look back on my time in teh cadets with fond memories as it made me the person I am - I have respect for my elders and respect for myself.

Unfortunately, there seems to be more ands more of this with kids having the attention span of a gnat.

They also take no responsibility for their actions


Man , I feel like an old fart now - I'm only 29!:jawsdown :jawsdown

Careful Maro, You are starting to sound like me.

[Maro]

Worrying hey!

You can tell I am not in the airforce by my hair in the "Post your Work" thread


:lmao :lmao :lmao