Should All High School Graduates be Required to Perform Compulsory Service

[bejohnson]

The question is: Should All High School Graduates and all people of the age of 18 (male and female) be required to go through a standardized military basic training of about 16 weeks and then perform at least one years service to the country in some capacity before embarking on their college career or their life's goals? Credits might be earned for college etc.

[egarrard]

Originally posted by bejohnson
The question is: Should All High School Graduates and all people of the age of 18 (male and female) be required to go through a standardized military basic training of about 16 weeks and then perform at least one years service to the country in some capacity before embarking on their college career or their life's goals? Credits might be earned for college etc. Good idea, but I'd have never made it through basic. Some required service to the country, in some form, Is a good idea, though.

[ch0g0nda]

Good for some. Waste of time for others. Now if they had options in what field to spend this year in then perhaps I'd change my tune a little.

[Sky Rookie]

I think a year is a lot of time, what I'm currently seeing is a requirement of anywhere between 20-40hrs of community service is required to graduate depending on the high school.

While I wasn't required to do community service back when I was in high school I think it's a great idea. As an up coming high school teacher, I think it teaches the students (I'm really sick of people in the business calling people 16-18 children...grrr..) responsibility and understanding. In college one of our assignments was to either do a 15 min presentation on a topic related to Psychology, or volunteer 20 hours for a non profit. Turned out that at the time I was doing my observation time at a local high school, and while there I was able to volunteer helping students with math, I ended up with about 35 hours...not only did it work for my class requirement, I learned about students and how they approach math problems...an asset for when I start teaching....so students doing community service may learn more then they thought....

Especially those students that attend school in more well off areas. Those in poor areas will see that a little selflessness goes a long way. I think everyone should volunteer their time whenever possible; there is always someone that can benefit from your good deed. I personally enjoy volunteering for Habitat for Humanity International, I've been a part of the week long Jimmy Carter Work Project twice now. When I have the time I also volunteer a local non profit resale shop.

[/end of volunteer promotion] :luxhello

[WazLady73]

That is a good question!

What do I think? It has been 11 years since my high school graduation..

I think that is a good idea. I was kind of lost my year after high school. I worked for the county in the county clerks office for a year then went to a junior college for culinary arts.

I think doing that for 1 year would have helped me clear my mind some. I didn't know what I wanted to do. It would have been good to show me something else, get me out of this area for a while and do something with my life. At that time..

I have actually thought about military service when I was at that age. My brother was in the Navy (1988-1992) and I thought of either the Marines or Air Force. But didn't go threw with it. Now I am too old to enlist.

But I don't dwell on that fact.

As long as the person graduating had the physcial abilities to do the military service for the year, then I don't see a problem with it. It is one year of their life to serve their country. And 1 year can go buy quickly.

They might even like the military and decide to stay in the full 4 years (given the fact that the 1 year is counted in that).

I believe that in that one year, the person would be more ready for college and life in the adult world.

I say go for it!

It would be nice, that for older folks, whose children are grown and off to college if they would let people enlist. They would have to go threw basic training just like the young recruits..

[blpeterson]

Originally posted by ch0g0nda
Good for some. Waste of time for others. Now if they had options in what field to spend this year in then perhaps I'd change my tune a little.

One year of service to the country in any form thats acceptable at the time. Does not have to be military service. Not all are cut out for that.

[neutralz]

hmm. i think such a thing should be implemented after college instead of after high school.
Just like me over here, i was enlisted when i was 18, which was directly after my junior college studies. have to serve 2 and a half years and go back to college after that.
and for this 2 and a half years its not easy trying to keep your brain alive and active. And quite a bit of those things learnt in junior college is beginning to fade, which means us guys would have a slightly tougher time catching up with academics after such a disruptive service :P

military training is good. i would think its an interesting experience, where you do things you never thought you could or would do. builds up your perseverance.

[blpeterson]

Originally posted by WazLady73
That is a good question!

What do I think? It has been 11 years since my high school graduation..

I think that is a good idea. I was kind of lost my year after high school. I worked for the county in the county clerks office for a year then went to a junior college for culinary arts.

I think doing that for 1 year would have helped me clear my mind some. I didn't know what I wanted to do. It would have been good to show me something else, get me out of this area for a while and do something with my life. At that time..

I have actually thought about military service when I was at that age. My brother was in the Navy (1988-1992) and I thought of either the Marines or Air Force. But didn't go threw with it. Now I am too old to enlist.

But I don't dwell on that fact.

As long as the person graduating had the physcial abilities to do the military service for the year, then I don't see a problem with it. It is one year of their life to serve their country. And 1 year can go buy quickly.

They might even like the military and decide to stay in the full 4 years (given the fact that the 1 year is counted in that).

I believe that in that one year, the person would be more ready for college and life in the adult world.

I say go for it!

It would be nice, that for older folks, whose children are grown and off to college if they would let people enlist. They would have to go threw basic training just like the young recruits..

Basic is rigorous to say the least and with the tendency of the country to be fatter (Sorry hon) the program would have to be tempered at first but should have good results on the general populance. The idea of older people going in to do clerical jobs is always kicking around and has it's merits. Service to the country can be very rewarding.

[blpeterson]

Originally posted by neutralz
hmm. i think such a thing should be implemented after college instead of after high school.
Just like me over here, i was enlisted when i was 18, which was directly after my junior college studies. have to serve 2 and a half years and go back to college after that.
and for this 2 and a half years its not easy trying to keep your brain alive and active. And quite a bit of those things learnt in junior college is beginning to fade, which means us guys would have a slightly tougher time catching up with academics after such a disruptive service :P

military training is good. i would think its an interesting experience, where you do things you never thought you could or would do. builds up your perseverance.

How goes the career?

[ch0g0nda]

Originally posted by blpeterson
One year of service to the country in any form thats acceptable at the time. Does not have to be military service. Not all are cut out for that. Thank you for repeating my post.

+1

[neutralz]

Originally posted by blpeterson
How goes the career?

career comes after service.
the current situation for junior college/cambridge A level students over here the way things go is like
secondary sch => junior college => National Service for 2 and a half years => back to college to get degree => Working career

i would rather it go like:
secondary => Junior college => degree => national service => career

[egarrard]

How are things going with your service? The last we heard, you had just graduated.

[thephenom]

I think it should be a freedom of choice.

In Taiwan, they are required to do it, and parents with some dough just pay the big bucks to send their children oversea for education instread of going through the tough army training.

I mean there are more ways to dicipline children other than forcing to do military training + 1 yr of service. For example, Ontario (Cdn province), students are now required to perform 40hrs of community services in order to graduate.

I think that's one way of learning to be more mature as well as giving back to the community.

[SNAFU]

Umm.... no. All I can do is run. Besides, I prefer using brains instead of brawn. That's where I excel. And since I'm shooting for a P, H, and D, I'd like to get there as soon as possible.

[neutralz]

Originally posted by egarrard
How are things going with your service? The last we heard, you had just graduated.

hmm. my latest posting's to the basic military school hq as logistics personnel, guess its mostly admin work infront of a 17inch lcd :) :luxhello

[thephenom]

Originally posted by SNAFU
Umm.... no. All I can do is run. Besides, I prefer using brains instead of brawn. That's where I excel. And since I'm shooting for a P, H, and D, I'd like to get there as soon as possible.

Oooooo....PHD..... for what subject?

[SNAFU]

I'm planning on finishing with a triple major in Mech Engineering, Math, and Physics. Then get my masters in Mech. Engineering. Then hopefully shoot for a Ph.D. If I don't get it, it's cool. But DEFINATELY atleast masters.

[efernandez_98]

Originally posted by bejohnson
The question is: Should All High School Graduates and all people of the age of 18 (male and female) be required to go through a standardized military basic training of about 16 weeks and then perform at least one years service to the country in some capacity before embarking on their college career or their life's goals? Credits might be earned for college etc. Hmm... before college career, I would guess that would mean during high school. Which would be equivelant to Junior Reserve Office Training Corps (jROTC).

I agree the training would be a good addition to standardized education. America is probably one of the few countries which military training is optional.

In highschool, I had to complete four years worth of Physical Education credits. The option was to go through GYM classes and/or JROTC. I chose JROTC instead of gym because I wanted to try something new. I am glad that I did, in fact I continued my entire highschool term in JROTC. It thought me how to properly conduct myself in terms of an emergency or a disaster. I learned basic survival skills which included but not limited to CPR and first aid. Amongst everything taught in high school, I found my training in JROTC the most valuable.

In my opinion, one year worth of JROTC or Red Cross Disaster Training should be a requirement to graduating high school. However, I don't agree in mandating any time in military service. As said before, service in the miltary is not for everyone.

P.s., I thought the poll was too extreme and overly pretentious, so I added a third option, "Sort of, a middle ground would more universally useful."

[XxFaeryOnFirexX]

or how about

They have to take ROTC for at least one year in High School???

I took it for 4 years and ended up as a Captain.

[blpeterson]

The reason the question was phrased the way it is was because of the following:

With the recent past events it is being debated if the country could field a large enough fighting force in a short time. One of the scenarios being discussed is to require basic training at the 18 year-old level or at high school graduation. This is before college as only some people go to college and 18 has been determined the proper age for the physical conditioning needed for this type service. After the period of basic a person would serve in some public service capacity. It could be military or not. After this time a person would have the option of which of life's paths to follow. Hopefully at that point a person will have developed skills that will aid them no matter which direction they take.

Also at this time everyone, male and female would be apart of the reserves for the remaining 5 years of their 6-year commitment. Most people forget that even though the draft was abolished each male still has a six-year commitment of military service that can be called upon until age 49. This is highly unlikely but possible.

The military stance is that the all-volunteer service is much more efficient as the people that are in the positions really want to be there and do a better job. But even they concede that if everyone already had basic and one year of service a call-up in a national emergency would be much easier to process.

It boils down to having a general populace that is prepared to be disciplined and ready to fit into a structured environment. The United States is the only major country that does not require some sort of general service and training.

At the risk of offending some, have we become too soft as a nation? Are we as a people ready to assume tremendous responsibility if we have to? These are questions that terrorist ask everyday when they question our commitment to our freedoms.

[egarrard]

Originally posted by blpeterson
At the risk of offending some, have we become too soft as a nation? Are we as a people ready to assume tremendous responsibility if we have to? These are questions that terrorist ask everyday when they question our commitment to our freedoms. Yes, we have become too soft. And too idealistic in our outlook. Love thy neighbor. Just be prepared for him to turn on you.

[efernandez_98]

Originally posted by blpeterson
Most people forget that even though the draft was abolished each male still has a six-year commitment of military service that can be called upon until age 49. This is highly unlikely but possible. Correct me of my ignorace, but I never knew that the United States abolished the draft. That sort of implies that the draft won't ever come back into existance. Kind of like the refuting the statement, "abolish slavery." America didn't pause slavery, so we can reestablish it later when it is more convenient.

From what I understand the original draft has been altered after the Vietnam war to a weighted based lottery. In the event of war or a national emergency which Congress and the President deduce that inductions are necessary, the first group of men that are registered with the Selective Service System who are (or will be) 20 during the calendar year would be the first group to be called. If more men are needed that year the order of call would continue up to those who will reach age 21, then 22, and on up through age 25. So, I am not sure where the age of 49 comes into play.

What needs to be changed, before mandating a year of military service for 18 year olds, is to require women to register with Selective Service System along side the men. However, that would take an act of Congress to amend that law. A more realistic idea is to enforce a year of junior Reserve Office Training Corp as a national high school requirement. Another thing the government should do is increase miltary spending on education to increase the presence and value of college ROTC courses. Military Acadamies also should be made more competitive in education with Ivy league schools, offer more scholarships, and have more sites available.

As, soft and idolistic we, Americans, have become; the idea of implementing a mandatory miltary service is ludicrous. Come on. In another thread we were discussing the unfortunate truth about accidental fatalites during training. Increasing the numbers in training will push the law of averages to increase the likelyhood of unnecessary accidents. It is one thing for an individual to volunteer and be placed in those conditions, it is another for a goverment to mandate it.

[bejohnson]

Originally posted by efernandez_98
Correct me of my ignorace, but I never knew that the United States abolished the draft. That sort of implies that the draft won't ever come back into existance. Kind of like the refuting the statement, "abolish slavery." America didn't pause slavery, so we can reesablish it later when it is more convenient.

From what I understand the original draft has been altered in after the Vietnam war to a weighted based lottery. In the event of war or a national emergency which Congress and the President deduce that inductions are necessary, the first group of men that are registered with the Selective Service System who are (or will be) 20 during the calendar year would be the first group to be called. If more men are needed that year the order of call would continue up to those who will reach age 21, then 22, and on up through age 25. So, I am not sure where the age of 49 comes into play.

What needs to be changed before mandating a year of military service for 18 year olds is to require women to register with Selective Service System along side the men. However, that would take an act of Congress to amend that law. A more realistic idea is to enforce a year of junior Reserve Office Training Corp as a national high school requirement. Another thing the government should do is increase miltary spending on education to increase the presence and value of college ROTC courses. Military Acadamies also should be made more competitive in education with Ivy league schools, offer more scholarships, and have more sites available.

As, soft and idolistic we, Americans, have become the idea of implementing a mandatory miltary service is ludicrous. Come on. In another thread we were discussing the unfortunate truth about accidental fatalites during training. Increasing the numbers in training will push the law of averages to increase the likelyhood of unnecessary accidents. It is one thing for an individual to volunteer and be placed in those conditions, it is another for a goverment to mandate it.

The draft was stopped after Vietnam but the selective service requirement is still in place. All males 18 or older must still register and all males under the age of 49 have a commitment to serve in the service of the military for 6-years. This used to be 2-years active and 4-years reserve. Some opted for 4-years active with 2-years reserve. The smart guys served for 6-years and when they got out they were free and clear. The requirement for service has not been changed and in a call-up the younger would be called first. But in a major emergency or if you have a particular skill then you could be called as old as 49. As far as the precise system used that is at the whim of congress.

The basic training that we are referring to far exceeds JROTC and would replace the basic training for all services. It most probably would be equal to Marine Corp Basic. There would be no exceptions except for health considerations or extenuating family circumstances and would cover both sexes. It definitely would change the way a lot of young adults view the world. Among the goals would be the teaching of discipline, respect, honesty, teamwork and honor besides the physical conditioning. The one-year of service as said before does not have to be military but would still be service to the country that would be determined by the congress. The bottom line is everyone would have had their Basic Training before age 19 and should be well on the way to a productive life already prepared not only for what confronts the country but for most of life’s hand grenades also.

This question puts a radical (for the U.S.) idea into play. It may never happen but with the apathy shown more and more by our young adults, who knows?

BTW this idea has been floated in both parties for discussion. There is no question of constitutionality as the constitution specifies that the raising and support of the military is a duty of congress.

Also if you don't think our Service Academies are tough and just as good as an Ivy League School. Talk to Brandi. She holds a triple BS from the Naval Academy and two MSs and two Phds from MIT. She also has two MSs and two Phds from Cal Tech. The Service Academy was the toughest.

[littlemissborin]

I personally love learning.. and Idefinitely didn't come to college to party.. however, I know I would never make it thru basic training ever... I'm glad I went straight into college.. i know that a lot of people who wait a year or so have trouble ever finding the ambition to go back into it. Maybe it's different if you're serving your country. I have a deep respect for all those who are defending my rights, but I do not wish to join them.. I'll stay behind and get an education so I can teach the youth of america and some of them can join if they'd like, but I really don't think it should be mandatory.

[blpeterson]

Originally posted by littlemissborin
I personally love learning.. and Idefinitely didn't come to college to party.. however, I know I would never make it thru basic training ever... I'm glad I went straight into college.. i know that a lot of people who wait a year or so have trouble ever finding the ambition to go back into it. Maybe it's different if you're serving your country. I have a deep respect for all those who are defending my rights, but I do not wish to join them.. I'll stay behind and get an education so I can teach the youth of america and some of them can join if they'd like, but I really don't think it should be mandatory.

You would be surprised if I told you I could get you through Marine basic with no problems. It's really mind over matter and the physical conditioning doesn't hurt. One of the yearlong public services in the proposal was assistant teaching.

BTW Even Marine Corp basic can be fun. I go to Quantico every now and then and run the obstacle course for fun. I usually bait several marines into a bet and then embarrass them soundly. They are great guys though. After beating their pants off they still try to pick you up. Only after they find out that you are a Navy Captain are they thoroughly disheartened. Then they want to adopt you.

[efernandez_98]

Originally posted by bejohnson
All males 18 or older must still register and all males under the age of 49 have a commitment to serve in the service of the military for 6-years. You know what, this is still bothering me. I've been going through the Selective Services System (http://www.sss.gov) website. I found that miltary acadamy students are required to serve in the military for a period of eight years, and I found the Department of Defense (DoD) Policy in regards to recalling retired miltary personal.Department of Defense Policy

It is DoD policy, as specified in DoD Directive 1352.1, that military retirees shall be ordered to active duty (as needed) to fill personnel shortfalls due to mobilization or other emergencies. The military services are responsible for establishing plans and procedures to use those military retirees who meet specific skill and experience requirements to fill mobilization billets, when here is not enough active or qualified Reserve manpower vailable. The Secretaries of the Military Departments are responsible for determining the extent of military retiree mobilization requirements, preparing plans and establishing procedures for mobilization of military retirees.

Any retired military member, regular or reserve, who has completed 20 years of active service, may be ordered to active duty by the Secretary concerned at any time in accordance with 10 USC 688.

The Secretary of a Military Department may order any other retired member of a Reserve component to active duty with their consent in accordance with 10 USC 12301(d).

(Note: Age or disability alone may not be the sole basis for excluding a retiree from active military service during mobilization.)However, I can't find anything about civilains under tha age of 49 having a commitment to serve in the miltary. According, to the information available, only males between the ages of 18-25 have obligation to serve in the miltary if called into duty.

[bejohnson]

I have forgot where it is. Normal age for initial service is less than 26 but in time of national emergency I think it is still 49. All statistics compiled for military age are in the 18-49 year group.

Here are the U.S. Code sections on the Militia and the National Guard.

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA

§ 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are --

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia;

and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.


UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 32 - NATIONAL GUARD
CHAPTER 3 - PERSONNEL

§ 313. Appointments and enlistments: age limitations

(a) To be eligible for original enlistment in the National Guard, a person must be at least 17 years of age and under 45, or under 64 years of age and a former member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or Regular Marine Corps. To be eligible for reenlistment, a person must be under 64 years of age.

(b) To be eligible for appointment as an officer of the National Guard, a person must -

(1) be a citizen of the United States; and

(2) be at least 18 years of age and under 64.

[efernandez_98]

Originally posted by bejohnson
I have forgot where it is. Normal age for initial service is less than 26 but in time of national emergency I think it is still 49. All statistics compiled for military age are in the 18-49 year group.

Here are the U.S. Code sections on the Militia and the National Guard. Cool, that makes me a member of unorganized militia. :luxhello