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neshi
12-08-2003, 05:42 PM
MSNBC

Civil Wars

By Stuart Taylor Jr. and Evan Thomas, Newsweek


The Rev. Ron Singleton's door is always open. That way, when the Methodist minister of a small congregation in Inman, S.C., is counseling a parishioner, his secretary across the hall is a witness in case Singleton is accused of inappropriate behavior. (When his secretary is not around, the reverend does his counseling at the local Burger King.)

SINGLETON HAS A POLICY of no hugging from the front; just a chaste arm around the shoulders from the side. And he's developed a lame little hand pat to console the lost and the grieving. The dearth of hugging is "really sad," he says, but what is he going to do? He could ill afford a lawsuit.
Dr. Sandra R. Scott of Brooklyn, N.Y., has never been sued for malpractice, but that doesn't keep her from worrying. As an emergency-room doctor, she often hears her patients threaten lawsuits--even while she's treating them. "They'll come in, having bumped their heads on the kitchen cabinet, and meanwhile I'll be dealing with two car crashes," she says. "And if they don't have the test they think they should have in a timely fashion, they'll get very angry. All of a sudden, it's 'You're not treating me, this hospital is horrible, I'm going to sue you'."

Ryan Warner is a volunteer who runs an annual softball tournament in Page, Ariz., that usually raises about $5,000 to support local school sports programs. But not this year. A man who broke his leg at a recent tournament sliding into third base filed a $100,000 lawsuit against the city, and Warner fears he may be named as a defendant. "It's very upsetting when you're doing something for the community, not making any money for yourself, to be sued over something over which you had no control," he says. So Warner canceled the tournament.

Playgrounds all over the country have been stripped of monkey bars, jungle gyms, high slides and swings, seesaws and other old-fashioned equipment once popularized by President John F. Kennedy's physical-fitness campaign. The reason: thousands of lawsuits by people who hurt themselves at playgrounds. But some experts say that new, supposedly safer equipment is actually more dangerous because risk-loving kids will test themselves by, for instance, climbing across the top of a swing set. Other kids sit at home and get fat--and their parents sue McDonald's.

Americans will sue each other at the slightest provocation. These are the sorts of stories that fill schoolteachers and doctors and Little League coaches with dread that the slightest mistake--or offense to an angry or addled parent or patient--will drag them into litigation hell, months or years of mounting legal fees and acrimony and uncertainty, with the remote but scary risk of losing everything. And while lawsuits can be a force for good, they are also changing and complicating the lives of millions of American professionals in ways that confound common sense and cast a shadow over a system that can, at its best, offer people relief and redress from legitimate grievances (Click here to read John Edwards's essay).

The onslaught of litigation is nothing new--nor all bad. Starting in the 1960s, crusading judges and well-meaning social reformers began opening the way for the powerless and the dispossessed to assert their rights by going to court. Large corporations and authority figures were held responsible for their carelessness or callousness. Manufacturers were forced to pay more attention to the safety of their workers and consumers, and public officials were held more accountable to the people they served.

But Americans don't just sue big corporations or bad people. They sue doctors over misfortunes that no doctor could prevent. They sue their school officials for disciplining their children for cheating. They sue their local governments when they slip and fall on the sidewalk, get hit by drunken drivers, get struck by lightning on city golf courses--and even when they get attacked by a goose in a park (that one brought the injured plaintiff $10,000). They sue their ministers for failing to prevent suicides. They sue their Little League coaches for not putting their children on the all-star team. They sue their wardens when they get hurt playing basketball in prison. They sue when their injuries are severe but self-inflicted, when their hurts are trivial and when they have not suffered at all.

Many of these cases do not belong in court. But clients and lawyers sue anyway, because they hope they will get lucky and win a jackpot from a system that allows sympathetic juries to award plaintiffs not just real damages--say, the cost of doctor's fees or wages lost--but millions more for impossible-to-measure "pain and suffering" and highly arbitrary "punitive damages." (Under standard "contingency fee" arrangements, plaintiffs' lawyers get a third to a half of the take.) This year the U.S. Supreme Court tried to limit punitive damages, and judges often reduce the most outrageous jury verdicts. And the "litigation explosion" of the past 30 years may be leveling off (though one study shows a sharp recent uptick). Even so, the mere threat of a lawsuit is intimidating. Many Americans sue because they have come to believe that they have the "right" to impose the costs and burdens of defending a lawsuit on anyone who angers them, regardless of fault or blame.

The cost to society cannot be measured just in money, though the bill is enormous, an estimated $200 billion a year, more than half of it for legal fees and costs that could be used to hire more police or firefighters or teachers. Our society has been changed in a subtler, sadder way. We have been hardened and made more fearful. Friends and neighbors are more wary now. Almost anyone has to ask: if I say or do something that might be taken wrong, will I wind up in court? Mentors and teachers are restrained from offering either comfort or discipline--might that touch be misconstrued, those stern words somehow made "actionable"?

Perversely, our insistence on enforcing our "rights" has made us less free--less free to use our own judgment to make common sense or humane choices about the way we live and treat others. We are paralyzed by "legal fear," says Philip K. Howard, a legal reformer who published a 1994 best seller on the subject, "The Death of Common Sense," and more recently, "The Collapse of the Common Good" (2001). But are we truly stuck? In two of the most contentious arenas--education and health care--Howard has devised proposals to save Americans from a legal system gone mad. He says the key is to separate trivial or frivolous cases that don't belong in court from those that are legitimate, a responsibility that he says judges have abdicated.


My only question is how did America get this way?

:Nope :Nope :Nope :Crying :Crying :Sigh :Sigh :Sigh

west1055
12-08-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by neshi
My only question is how did America get this way?

:Nope :Nope :Nope :Crying :Crying :Sigh :Sigh :Sigh

Who the hell knows.

It'd help a heaping lot if some judges had some common sense and throw out a heaping pile of lawsuits and crap but they dont they allow it.

Common sense has appearently been killed. Who shot him I dont know. Appearently people are stupid and have no idea what the hell they are doing half the time. Maybe its the heavily amont of drugs we have become to rely on to 'cure our ails' when what we really need is some common sense and decency whipped into our ass.

Maro
12-08-2003, 07:01 PM
It's the same here in Australia and also going that way in the UK.

It is a truly ridiculous state of affairs - more so because Judges are supposed to be able to stop this before it gets out of hand.

Here in Aus the Public liability Insurance problems have caused major problems - School fetes being cancelled, Playgrounds closed as above and worse of all the raising of premiums for Surf Life Saving clubs.

These clubs are the cornerstone of Australian Beach Culture - every one respects them as they are volunteers who risk it all for no monetary reward (only yesterday one was nearly drowned trying to save a foolish cliff fisherman who got swept off a rock in stormy weather - he was swept into a sea cave and it took 2 hors of battling to get him out).

The insurance premiums for these cubs - who depend on charity for their funds - has risen 150% since last year due to stupid claims against them . e.g people swimming outside the flags even though you are explicitly told not to ,are suing their rescuers who by rights have no need to risk themselves outside their remit.

Unfortunately this "Compensation Culture" has also had a rather nastier effect to. The state Government has put a mandatory cap on all awards so in the case of someone who was legitimately injured and perhaps brain-damaged as a result of negligence would probably not recieve enough compensation to be taken care of properly.

I teuly dispair of the world we live in

:Sigh :Sigh :Sigh

getit29
12-08-2003, 09:42 PM
One company sues another company,one person sues another
person,and over what???man some of the suits are just plain
ridiculous what is this world comming to:Holy Crap :Nope

Artcwolf
12-08-2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by neshi
My only question is how did America get this way?

:Nope :Nope :Nope :Crying :Crying :Sigh :Sigh :Sigh

We are a quick fix, microwave society. A get rich quick lawsuit is an easy way for some people to get the money they could never get otherwise.

Oh, and by the way, I'm suing you for posting that.

residentevil3
12-08-2003, 11:09 PM
One word


(MONEY)

People only do this because of money if thier is a large chunk to gai nwhy not take advantage

west1055
12-08-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Artcwolf
We are a quick fix, microwave society. A get rich quick lawsuit is an easy way for some people to get the money they could never get otherwise.

Oh, and by the way, I'm suing you for posting that.



So sue me...:devil

SOme people just take that phrase WAY too seriously.

Its all about the money. The more the better. And the faster and easiest way we take. Sorta like robbing the bank legally... :rolleyes:

egarrard
12-09-2003, 05:06 AM
The hippies grew up and changed the world. They not only rebelled against the establishment, but against common sense too. That, and they realized they were guilty for all the world's ills.

The lawyers just took advantage of all the free money to be gained by the situation...

SavesNFGDay
12-09-2003, 05:27 AM
John Stossel for President '04 WOOO!!!



{Heavily Disguised Sarcasm}

JCYC5
12-09-2003, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by SavesNFGDay
John Stossel for President '04 WOOO!!!



{Heavily Disguised Sarcasm}

Wow, you haven't posted in a long time!

Welcome back :Blah

bejohnson
12-09-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by SavesNFGDay
John Stossel for President '04 WOOO!!!



{Heavily Disguised Sarcasm}

The sad thing is he is probably more qualified than any of the other candidates in either party.

I watched some of the Democratic debates while in Iowa; do you know how you can tell the difference between a Little Rascals/Our Gang short and the Democratic debates?

The Little Rascals/Our Gang shorts have the dog in it.

wazman
12-09-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by bejohnson
I watched some of the Democratic debates while in Iowa; do you know how you can tell the difference between a Little Rascals/Our Gang short and the Democratic debates?

The Little Rascals/Our Gang shorts have the dog in it.

That's just not right.

They also have funnier music.