Atkins is DEAD! [Archive] - 3dGameMan: Kickass Forum

eire1274

02-10-2004, 03:31 PM

First, whatever you think, I lost 45 pounds using methods very similar to Atkins recommendations.
Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
no heart problem causes such an extreme obesiness... only if he had a thyroid problem... + his Diet can cause heart problems
Not sure about the diet causing any heart problems... I'm sure if you were not watching your cholesterol intake and were just eating fatty beef that would screw you up, however lean beef, lean pork, poultry, and fish are very heart-beneficial.

Secondly, heart problems can and do contribute to weight gain. I'm proof. When my mitral valve first started causing symptoms (before we actually knew what was going on, though) I bulked up 40 pounds of fat, just because my metabolism was sharply less due to inadequate blood circulation. I was eating next to nothing, and still trying to at least walk 30 minutes every day, but I just kept gaining weight.

Post surgery (it's been 6 months now) I lost a tremendous amount of fat, but actually gained weight because I was building muscle again after 3 years of being a near-invalid due to chronic exhaustion. Now, I'm gaining weight again, due to the fact that I am still technically in congestive heart failure, which makes you prone to water retention.

I'm 6'4", 285lbs, and while I am overweight, I am certainly not obese by my reckoning.

Z3R0-CooL

02-10-2004, 03:36 PM

atkins diet sucks because of the following.. cant go into too much detail cause i dont have time..

1) Lowers HDL and increases LDL(good/bad cholesterol)
2) hypoglycemia
3) U feel tired all the time
4) hard on the liver since it has to break down all those fatty acids
5) Screw up with bodies energy demands and capabilities
6) Will gain lots of fat back
7) Constipation due to lack of Fibre(for those that dont know.. fibre comes from carbs)
8) u lose more muscle than fat
9) raises chances of colon cancer
10) raises chances of heart attack

XxFaeryOnFirexX-- i am sorry about ur mom.... whoever told her to eat plant proteins instead of meat is seriously stupid..... plant proteins are incomplete... incomplete means that they lack a huge spectrum of amino acids.. only meat has a full range of amino acids..... hence ur mom lost ALOT of muscle and veryyyyyy little fat.....

i hope that she is ok in her health.. was she on atkins?? did she have any dairy at least during her diet??
tell her to visit a nutriotionist and get her bum in the gym and the treadmill if she want to be healthy.. sorry about the language.. i meant it in a good way.......

coolhand

02-10-2004, 03:37 PM

Z3R0-CooL - the died is extreamly safe and effective if used in the proper way for the proper duration. and he was NOT OBESE. He was 198 pounds at 6 feet tall when he went into his coma, technically he was 258 pounds when he died whiil still in his coma, but it was due to his internal organs swelling and fluid retention which everyone goes through when they sustain such injuries. please get your facts straight before you celebrate someones death.

Z3R0-CooL

02-10-2004, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by coolhand
Z3R0-CooL - the died is extreamly safe and effective if used in the proper way for the proper duration. and he was NOT OBESE. He was 198 pounds at 6 feet tall when he went into his coma, technically he was 258 pounds when he died whiil still in his coma, but it was due to his internal organs swelling and fluid retention which everyone goes through when they sustain such injuries. please get your facts straight before you celebrate someones death.

read my above post and come give me some facts that prove that its safe and effective and swear that i will kill myself.....

XxFaeryOnFirexX

02-10-2004, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
XxFaeryOnFirexX-- i am sorry about ur mom.... whoever told her to eat plant proteins instead of meat is seriously stupid..... plant proteins are incomplete... incomplete means that they lack a huge spectrum of amino acids.. only meat has a full range of amino acids..... hence ur mom lost ALOT of muscle and veryyyyyy little fat.....

hmm... that is weird because she has lost almost all her fat and has gained muscle mass. She does eat meats and she fills in the gaps to make them complete by eating a variety. Believe me and her and the doctors and all the people CERTIFIED in this and diets and the such. Her LDL is way down and her HDL is way UP. I dunno.... maybe she is different but I have to deal with this so I eat everything in site.

Z3R0-CooL

02-10-2004, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by XxFaeryOnFirexX
hmm... that is weird because she has lost almost all her fat and has gained muscle mass. She does eat meats and she fills in the gaps to make them complete by eating a variety. Believe me and her and the doctors and all the people CERTIFIED in this and diets and the such. Her LDL is way down and her HDL is way UP. I dunno.... maybe she is different but I have to deal with this so I eat everything in site.

well u said that she didnt eat meats... not my fault.....

XxFaeryOnFirexX

02-10-2004, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
well u said that she didnt eat meats... not my fault.....

sorry. Should have clarified.

Z3R0-CooL

02-10-2004, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by eire1274
First, whatever you think, I lost 45 pounds using methods very similar to Atkins recommendations.

Not sure about the diet causing any heart problems... I'm sure if you were not watching your cholesterol intake and were just eating fatty beef that would screw you up, however lean beef, lean pork, poultry, and fish are very heart-beneficial.

Secondly, heart problems can and do contribute to weight gain. I'm proof. When my mitral valve first started causing symptoms (before we actually knew what was going on, though) I bulked up 40 pounds of fat, just because my metabolism was sharply less due to inadequate blood circulation. I was eating next to nothing, and still trying to at least walk 30 minutes every day, but I just kept gaining weight.

Post surgery (it's been 6 months now) I lost a tremendous amount of fat, but actually gained weight because I was building muscle again after 3 years of being a near-invalid due to chronic exhaustion. Now, I'm gaining weight again, due to the fact that I am still technically in congestive heart failure, which makes you prone to water retention.

I'm 6'4", 285lbs, and while I am overweight, I am certainly not obese by my reckoning.

hope ur doctors mentioned that when u have low metabolism the way of fixing that is by eating small amounts of food regularly hence, eating something like 6-8 meals a day...

fluid goes away really fast.. if it hasnt its because u dont watch ur sodium intake... try drinking some coffee.. but i am not sure if caffeine is good for u since u have heart problems...

285lbs not obese???? :confused: check ur Body-Fat %...... just buy something like a tanita scale.. its will give u a hint...

EDIT: u could also try a diuretic... Not harbal though cause most of them are caffeine based... go to ur doc and ask him/her for something like LASIX (which is a bit dangerous) or to be on the safe side ask for a "potassium sparing" diuretic like spironolactone
(it has many names but ur doc will know). others include Amiloride and triamterene which are mild....

or ask him if u could take the herbal stuff like:

1) Uva Ursi
2) there is a B vitamin that in combination with Vit C helps.. (i think its B5 or B6..cant remember sorry)
3) Green Tea and Yerba Mate Extracts contain some caffeine though
4) Taraxacum Officinale Leaf Extract

eire1274

02-10-2004, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
hope ur doctors mentioned that when u have low metabolism the way of fixing that is by eating small amounts of food regularly hence, eating something like 6-8 meals a day...
No, my slow metabolism was due to an 85% return leakage through my mitral valve back into my lungs. This is why I had open heart surgery and now have an artificial valve system.
fluid goes away really fast.. if it hasnt its because u dont watch ur sodium intake... try drinking some coffee.. but i am not sure if caffeine is good for u since u have heart problems...
Congestive heart failure is generally a result of over-expanded heart tissue. In my case, the heart muscle was oversized due to an attempt by the heart to be "stronger" to make up for only being able to pump forward 15% of the "normal" amount. For the record, I am now at 93% of normal. However, my heart is still enlarged, which causes some beating irregularities, as well as peripheral effects in the renal system, which reduces the body's efficiency at removing excess water, which then builds up in tissues. I am on a restricted sodium diet, but will have to occasionally go through short-term Lasix treatments to help reduce the fluid retention.

To say that fluid goes away really fast is just plain arrogant. It does not when it is caused by a persistant medical condition.
285lbs not obese???? :confused: check ur Body-Fat %...... just buy something like a tanita scale.. its will give u a hint...
Let me give you a little personal information. I am 6'4" tall. I have a size 38 waist. I bench 350lbs regularly, and leg-press over 1600lbs. I have been a practicing martial artist for 20 years, and can jump over your head. I have a bit of a tummy, but I am not obese. I'm offended that you chose to challenge me in my comment about myself.

Concerning your suggestions for natural diuretics, I'm highly restricted in what I can take due to potential effects on the heart. Most diuretics cause mild hypertension, which in my case could lead to serious problems.

bejohnson

02-10-2004, 07:31 PM

Atkins-Blasting 'Physicians' Committee is a Front Group for PETA

WASHINGTON, Feb. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- The late Dr. Robert Atkins is being smeared for his alleged obesity at the time of his death, by a phony doctors organization that has been exposed as a front group for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) and has been censured by the American Medical Association (AMA). The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) has taken in over $1 million from PETA and the animal rights movement. PCRM and PETA also share office space, board members, and staff.

The AMA has formally censured PCRM in the past, calling its recommendations "irresponsible" and "potentially dangerous to the health and welfare of Americans." The AMA has also called PCRM a "fringe organization" that uses "unethical tactics" and is "interested in perverting medical science."

PCRM's attacks on diets including meat, fish and dairy foods, and its constant demands for a vegetarian America are rooted in an animal-rights philosophy.

The facts on the late Dr. Robert Atkins:

(1) Dr. Stuart Trager MD, chairman of the Atkins Physicians Council, told the Wall Street Journal that Atkins' heart disease stemmed from cardiomyopathy, a condition that was thought to result from a viral infection. Atkins' weight was due to bloating and water-retention associated with his condition, and the time he spent in a coma after his head injury.

(2) Trager's own release this morning reads in part: "Due to water retention ... [Atkins] had a weight that varied between 180 and 195. During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed, fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain of over 60 pounds."

The Center for Consumer Freedom is a nonprofit coalition supported by restaurants, food companies, and consumers working together to promote personal responsibility and protect consumer choices.

SOURCE Center for Consumer Freedom
Web Site: http://www.consumerfreedom.com

egarrard

02-10-2004, 07:35 PM

PETA is starting to remind me of the Klan... :Nope :Sigh

wazman

02-10-2004, 07:40 PM

PETA irritates me.

Peta Wilson, on the other hand...

Mmmmmmm.

:devil

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 02:06 AM

PETA=People Eating Tasty Animals LOL

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by Whisp[TR]
what a sad topic

being happy that someone is dead is disturbing

not when that person has made lots of ppl suffer, especially on a very sensitive for obese ppl topic. He is/was dangerous

i guess ur not happy Hitler is dead??? if ur not ur too good of a person.. i am not...

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by eire1274

Let me give you a little personal information. I am 6'4" tall. I have a size 38 waist. I bench 350lbs regularly, and leg-press over 1600lbs. I have been a practicing martial artist for 20 years, and can jump over your head. I have a bit of a tummy, but I am not obese. I'm offended that you chose to challenge me in my comment about myself.

u took it the wrong way.. i didnt mean it like that.. i wouldnt say something like that cause i used to be obese.......

what i meant by a tanita scale is u can check ur bf% so that u can determine ~ how much fluid and how much fat u got...... sorry

i find it hard to believe that u bench 350lbs... did u mean 1 rep? cause benching 350 for reps is sick.. especially when pro bbers like ronnie coleman and jay cutler can bench 400lb for 4-5 reps.. and they are on grams of juice...

can i ask u something?? when u are on LASIX did u doc tell u to take potassium as well? how many mgs do u take for both?? i am interrested cause i want to use it as well.. are there any side-effects ?

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by Whisp[TR]
i still dont go around celebrating peoples deaths unlike someone we know

like i said i am not a good person.. i dont appreciate it when someone takes advantage of peoples problems to make money or become famous especially when the solution he/she gave puts ppl lives at risk

eire1274

02-11-2004, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
u took it the wrong way.. i didnt mean it like that.. i wouldnt say something like that cause i used to be obese.......

what i meant by a tanita scale is u can check ur bf% so that u can determine ~ how much fluid and how much fat u got...... sorry

i find it hard to believe that u bench 350lbs... did u mean 1 rep? cause benching 350 for reps is sick.. especially when pro bbers like ronnie coleman and jay cutler can bench 400lb for 4-5 reps.. and they are on grams of juice...

can i ask u something?? when u are on LASIX did u doc tell u to take potassium as well? how many mgs do u take for both?? i am interrested cause i want to use it as well.. are there any side-effects ?
Nah, 350 once and I'm spent. I usually sit around the 200-250 mark for reps. Keep in mind that I haven't been weight training heavily in the last 6 months on account of my breast bone not being entirely healed, and therefore at risk of splitting if I overdo it.

Actually, I can't take supplemental potassium. It messes with one of my rhythm meds if I get too much or too little, so I have to have a blood test weekly for that, plus one for my clotting factor, so 2 tests a week.

eire1274

02-11-2004, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
not when that person has made lots of ppl suffer, especially on a very sensitive for obese ppl topic. He is/was dangerous

i guess ur not happy Hitler is dead??? if ur not ur too good of a person.. i am not...
First, the "Atkins Diet", when followed to the letter, is quite healthy. The problem was people who thought they understood it and didn't seek proper nutritional advice, and just tried to live off of beef steaks. Atkins was all about high protein, low carb, low fat, high fiber, and his "program" called for a close monitoring of intake to make sure you were getting enough nutrition. Most people who suffered because of the "Atkins Diet" were actually just trying to do something they heard about but had not researched. To stick Atkins with that stigma is unfair... it would be like blaming Warren Buffet for losing your life savings in the stock market while trying to emulate him without research.

And... are you saying you wish Hitler was alive? Because if you are, my Irish a$$ is out for blood. Not a cool thing to say, so please clarify and tell me I miss-interpreted what you said.

coolhand

02-11-2004, 09:21 AM

its just as well to end this topic now.....

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by eire1274

Actually, I can't take supplemental potassium. It messes with one of my rhythm meds if I get too much or too little, so I have to have a blood test weekly for that, plus one for my clotting factor, so 2 tests a week.

i know that potassium can make ur heart stop just like that.. thats why i asked... How many Mgs of LASIX were u taking? how many times a day, at what intervals??

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by eire1274
First, the "Atkins Diet", when followed to the letter, is quite healthy. The problem was people who thought they understood it and didn't seek proper nutritional advice, and just tried to live off of beef steaks. Atkins was all about high protein, low carb, low fat, high fiber, and his "program" called for a close monitoring of intake to make sure you were getting enough nutrition. Most people who suffered because of the "Atkins Diet" were actually just trying to do something they heard about but had not researched. To stick Atkins with that stigma is unfair... it would be like blaming Warren Buffet for losing your life savings in the stock market while trying to emulate him without research.

And... are you saying you wish Hitler was alive? Because if you are, my Irish a$$ is out for blood. Not a cool thing to say, so please clarify and tell me I miss-interpreted what you said.

ur mistaking a low carb diet with an atkins diet.. atkins is supposed to be NO-CARB not LOW-CARB.... cant take fibre cause fibre is carbs.....

thats the reason NO knowledgeble nutritionist agrees with him..

huh?? what r u talking about???? someone said "what a sad topic
being happy that someone is dead is disturbing"

and i asked since he is not happy that some ppl die "if he is not happy that hitler died".... u did miss-interpret what i said....

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by coolhand
its just as well to end this topic now.....

i am still waiting for u to provide 1!!!! piece of evidence to support ur claim that the atkins diet is healthy.. since u obviously cant just admit it...

eire1274

02-11-2004, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
ur mistaking a low carb diet with an atkins diet.. atkins is supposed to be NO-CARB not LOW-CARB.... cant take fibre cause fibre is carbs.....

thats the reason NO knowledgeble nutritionist agrees with him..

huh?? what r u talking about???? someone said "what a sad topic
being happy that someone is dead is disturbing"

and i asked since he is not happy that some ppl die "if he is not happy that hitler died".... u did miss-interpret what i said....
Okay... no carb IS low carb. Just EXTREMELY low carb. Also, it is impossible to get NO CARB because everything, meat included, has SOME carbs. Insoluble fiber is NOT a CARB (this is the fiber beneficial to the digestive system), soluble (digestable) fiber IS a source of carbs.

I personally know of at least 10 board certified nutritionists who prescribe Atkins-approved dietary plans based on case, so obviously some dietitions agree.

OK, I'm glad I misinterpreted. I was really mad at you for a minute.

eire1274

02-11-2004, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
i know that potassium can make ur heart stop just like that.. thats why i asked... How many Mgs of LASIX were u taking? how many times a day, at what intervals??
The last two times I've been on Lasix, it's been IV, once a day. No clue as to the dosage. Next time it will probably be tablet, and I'll let you know.

egarrard

02-11-2004, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
i am still waiting for u to provide 1!!!! piece of evidence to support ur claim that the atkins diet is healthy.. since u obviously cant just admit it... My doctor prescribed my low-carb diet. And, after reading the books, it makes sense. Weight loss would be great, but the other benefits are why I do it.

Artcwolf

02-11-2004, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by egarrard
My doctor prescribed my low-carb diet. And, after reading the books, it makes sense. Weight loss would be great, but the other benefits are why I do it.

There are two types of carbs.

Simple and complex.

Simple carbs are the ones you want to avoid.

Complex are the ones that you want to eat (not over indulge). I keep my carbs very restricted; however, I do eat some and do my best to keep them all complex carbs. This allows for fiber intake and a good source of readedly available energy.

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Whisp[TR]
oh here we go

the you still havnt proved your point like his last thread lol

now we will have a topic that goes around in circles for days while no one can prove anything lol

if u want studies just look for them.. i have **** loads of studies to support what i am saying and i cant post all of them... some of them

go read the journal by DR Lynnette R Ferguson and DR Philip J Harris it was posted on "the Lancet" and the article is on page 1487. it clearly states that colon cancer is associated with the low fibre diet..

also someone mentioned that the atkins diet is supposed to be a short-term diet when atkins himself specifies in his book that the diet is suppossed to be for life.

also
"the Atkins Diet, you may have to stay on it for life. There are a couple reasons for this. First, as with any diet, when you go off the diet, the body has a tendency to recover it's lost weight. So quitting any diet without nutritional and lifestyle changes leads to weight gain. However, the Atkins Diet seems particularly prone to weight gain if you stop because the body thinks it has gone through a famine and will lay in plenty of extra fat to meet the next one. Also there is that tendency to eat all those foods that were missing during the diet (many of them full of sugar). To belie what I just said, when I quit the Atkins Diet, I did not gain the weight back, and indeed lost some more weight by an increased awareness of what was in the foods I ate, and avoiding snacks. "

the list goes on and on and on and on and on...........

Diet high in fats increase the risk of damage in the cardiovascular system. another study showed that the atkins diet is effective only in short-term and not "for life" as atkins specifies. the lowered LDL and increased HDL is a direct effect of the weight loss. after that 6 month period the study showed that the HDL was lower than when the individuals started dieting and the LDL was sky high as a direct effect of the high fat diet. It also showed that low fat low cal diets are more effective after the 6 month period and that ppl in atkins lost less weight in 1 year that the ppl in the other diet.

i cant go on i simply cant be bothered..

Artcwolf yes i know that there are 2 types of carbs... what u dont realize is that the atkins diet prohibits the intake of carbs.. not just simple carbs..

BTW in case u dont know

simple carbs= sugar, dextrose/glucose, fructose, sucrose... etc.
complex carbs= starchy carbs and fibrous barbs

complex carbs are potatoes, rice, pasta...... all prohibited in the atkins diet....

fibre no matter what it is, is a carb.. hence prohibited in the atkins diet..

insoluble fiber is in bran, whole grains, raw fruits and vegetables, all again forbidden in atkins...

someone said that "meat has carbs" ur wrong.. meat does has 0 carbs.. plain and simple.. just look the label.. meat only has protein and fat.. if it has 0.000000000000000000000000000000001mg of carbs that doesnt qualify...

the rest is basic biology... pick up a book and read...
The liver requires a long time to process fatty acids.. hence it is stressed.....

what i dont believe is that high protein affects a person with healthy kidneys.. me being a bodybuilder i have to have a diet HIGH in protein and it is ALOT higher than the atkins diet and i have never had any abnormal values for kidneys...

more:
muscles require glycogen.. glycogen is made from carbs, hence not taking carbs the body will deplete the livers stores and then it will head to the muscles. thats what happens before ur body goes into ketosis.... the whole idea behind the atkins diet.. hence the muscles shrink and u become weaker, ergo u lose weight... i hope that ppl know that muscle-loss and fat-loss is different....

hmm.. i think i covered everything.. anything i missed just tell me and i will post more...... now let me see u prove that the atkins diet is beneficial (not that is effective cause i know it is).....

Artcwolf

02-11-2004, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
Artcwolf yes i know that there are 2 types of carbs... what u dont realize is that the atkins diet prohibits the intake of carbs.. not just simple carbs..

BTW in case u dont know

simple carbs= sugar, dextrose/glucose, fructose, sucrose... etc.
complex carbs= starchy carbs and fibrous barbs

complex carbs are potatoes, rice, pasta...... all prohibited in the atkins diet....

1) No offense, but I was not replying to you directly.

2) Yes, I do realize how the Atkins diet works and no, I don't agree with much of the Atkins diet. Though, I am not going to go into what parts I disagree with.

3) Simple carbs are sugars, white bread, bleached rice, white pasta, white flour, candy, etc.

4) Complex carbs are in wheat breads, sweet potatoes, fruits, vegtables, brown rice, wheat pasta, wheat flour, etc.

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Artcwolf

3) Simple carbs are sugars, white bread, bleached rice, white pasta, white flour, candy, etc.

simple carbs are ONLY sugars.. what u mentioned contain good amounts of sugars but are NOT simple carbs by themselves.. candy is cause it only contains sugar and nothing else. but the food candy is not a simple carb by itself.. it just contains simple carbs.. same with the rest u mentioned...

beer and 99.9999% of the drinks are like that as well since they contain dextrose/glucose etc.. which all are simple sugars

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Whisp[TR]
a good healthy diet should be for life

everyone knows that

i agree

Originally posted by Whisp[TR]

and like any subject there will be people for and people agaisnt

so like i said it will just go around in circles since you will post info and then people will post there side

back and fourth and around and around

so far i am the only one that has posted evidence.. noone else.... and the atkins diet does not qualify as a healthy diet...

Artcwolf

02-11-2004, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
simple carbs are ONLY sugars.. what u mentioned contain good amounts of sugars but are NOT simple carbs by themselves.. candy is cause it only contains sugar and nothing else. but the food candy is not a simple carb by itself.. it just contains simple carbs.. same with the rest u mentioned...

beer and 99.9999% of the drinks are like that as well since they contain dextrose/glucose etc.. which all are simple sugars

Pictures are linked and I was a little off on my examples. I should have refreshed my memory prior to posting.

<img src=http://medicalimages.allrefer.com/large/simple-carbohydrates.jpg> (http://health.allrefer.com/health/carbohydrates-simple-carbohydrates.html)

<img src=http://medicalimages.allrefer.com/large/complex-carbohydrates.jpg> (http://health.allrefer.com/health/carbohydrates-complex-carbohydrates.html)

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 02:29 PM

key words: "contain", "are found"..

candy and that sort of stuff are made with refined sugars, simple carbs but u cant call candy a simple sugar due to the simple fact that nothing is 100% sugar

the closest one can reach 100% sugar are refined sugars... last time i checked and i dont think that can be changed is ~98% sugar.... hence u will never see:

in 100gr of X product u get
carbs-100
sugars-100

if u see it then the label is wrong.... check with a nutritionist... ive been into that sort of stuff long enough to know that nothing is 100% what it is.... just like meat.... 100% chicken breast(skinless,boneless) is only 22gr protein and about 2.5fat.. the rest is nothing.. some vits and mineral may be some mgs but the rest is just nothing..

u cannot say that some foods in whole are simple sugars.. it may contain only sugar but that doesnt mean that by itself its a simple sugar.. see what i mean.. thats the best explaination i can give....

Tivon

02-11-2004, 03:37 PM

I might not be in great shape now that I'm 30 with a few kids. But back in the day I lived in the gym. I tried almost every sort of diet and thing you can buy. The atkins diet is just that, "A DIET." you can't live on a diet forever because you still need those foods you're not taking in. I see no harm in eating lots of meats if you have the right blood type for it. Because everyone body is not the same you need to adjust your diet for what works with you.

There are a few simple rules about weight.
1. Eat alot of food = gain weight.
2. Work out, burn off that extra energy.
3. Control carbs and sugar Intake.
4. Take your Vitamins.
5. Say no to soda! And Drink lots of water.
6. Eat Equal amounts of meat+Veg and avoid carbs.

All you need are those 6 rules..

Next time you eat just put half the amount of food on your plate. Give yourself 20min before eating extra food, even if you're still hungry. That is how long it takes for the food to hit the gut.

Workout, even if it's just a 20min walk, few crunches and push-ups is better than nothing.

Next time you order fast food say, "Burger.. No fries and Water."
Everything about a burger is fine. The Fat is fine, the Carbs are okay, but it's the mix of foods that is bad. To control your blood sugar you must avoid having all 3 fuel types at once (Sugar+Fat+Carbs). When you drink that soda your body will boost changes in your blood to balance. In doing this it will only burn the SODA sugar first and the rest will be stored as FAT.

And this is why the Adkins diet works. You eat all the meat. The protien of meat is like the fiber of fat. It's nothing more than a space filler, or misc. parts when the body can't use it. So if you bulk up on lots of parts you feel full. Some people would have you think that too much meat is bad. That it will make parts of your body work harder. Nothing could be far from the truth. Now eating nothing but meat will have it's effects on you in time and that is why I would not do the Adkins diet, because you need balance.

Your body needs those carrots, green beans, black eyed peas, and corn ect.. You can eat too much VEGAN foods and gain weight. One of the problems of being a veg. only eater is that there is a lack of protiens. There is enough to live, but your going to lose muscle mass. However, I have seen some men gain mass not eating meat. So there must be plant foods that still complete to the protiens for humans?

Above all you should want to look good inside and out. All you need to do is eat a good balance of foods, in the right amounts and workout. This should be a life long goal and not about weight lose, this just the good side effect.

Xilant

02-11-2004, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
FINALLY.. thank god.. that moron destroyed a lot of ppl with his crap...

http://www.healthcentral.com/news/NewsFullText.cfm?id=1503586

Why the hell would you say that. Why would you celebrate the death of someone. Honestly.

This is the stupidest thread I have read.

If you don't think it's safe, it's very simple Z3RO-CooL. PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO USE IT, YOU SAY ATKINS DESTROYED A LOT OF PEOPLE. WHAT ABOUT SMOKING, DID YOU THINK OF THAT?

XxFaeryOnFirexX

02-11-2004, 06:10 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-11-18-adkins_x.htm
http://www.lowcarb.ca/articles/article148.html

there are others and if you google it there are scientific studies done.

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by XxFaeryOnFirexX
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-11-18-adkins_x.htm
http://www.lowcarb.ca/articles/article148.html

there are others and if you google it there are scientific studies done.

articles in newspapers or web sites dont qualify as scientific research... if u want some serious stuff do what i do... go to the hospitals library and read up... ive spent so many hours in there and everyone is sickin tired of me...

or go to pubmed

Z3R0-CooL

02-11-2004, 07:00 PM

will post again tomorrow.. sleepy time

Xilant

02-11-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
articles in newspapers or web sites dont qualify as scientific research... if u want some serious stuff do what i do... go to the hospitals library and read up... ive spent so many hours in there and everyone is sickin tired of me...

or go to pubmed

They count if they are facts.

KaCaBUla

02-11-2004, 07:50 PM

i love the atkins diet. heck i lost 80lbs on it in 2 months so it works. and im not feeling any thing wrong infact im feeling better.

Tivon

02-11-2004, 09:09 PM

http://www.earthsave.org/news/bloodtyp.htm

It's a good read.:thumb

eire1274

02-11-2004, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Whisp[TR]
hmm never knew that people didnt publish there scientific finds on the web
So, apparently, the fact that the American Journal of Health (among other publications) and the Harvard and Johns Hopkins Universities medical libraries are available online means that they are worthless, according to Z3R0-CooL.

I'm out, last comment on this issue. Too much ignorance in this thread.

Opinions are not bad, as long as you allow others to have opinions, too.

Z3R0-CooL

02-12-2004, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Tivon

There are a few simple rules about weight.
1. Eat alot of food = gain weight.
2. Work out, burn off that extra energy.
3. Control carbs and sugar Intake.
4. Take your Vitamins.
5. Say no to soda! And Drink lots of water.
6. Eat Equal amounts of meat+Veg and avoid carbs.

1) some ppl might want to gain weight
2) not if u want to gain muscle
3) wrong if u are a bodybuilder.. i take 130gr sugar post workout
4) Agreed
5) Agreed
6) Dont avoid carbs..... take quality carbs depending on the type of exercise

the rules u mentioned are for the couch potato...

Z3R0-CooL

02-12-2004, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by eire1274
So, apparently, the fact that the American Journal of Health (among other publications) and the Harvard and Johns Hopkins Universities medical libraries are available online means that they are worthless, according to Z3R0-CooL.

I'm out, last comment on this issue. Too much ignorance in this thread.

Opinions are not bad, as long as you allow others to have opinions, too.

before u start saying that ppl are ignorant first u need to check a few things...

the links that were posted are to newpaper articles.. no references to studies..... "Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. "

u are entitled to ur opinion.. and so am i.... the fact is though that noone can support their opinion but me.......

what is a scientific study : a study performed on a control enviroment by qualified scientists...

research: an article/journal/essay report etc based on scientific findings... hence it should be properly referenced.....

"American Journal of Health (among other publications) and the Harvard and Johns Hopkins Universities medical libraries are available online means that they are worthless, according to Z3R0-CooL."

are u really that ~##'!#'1#S'# there is a slight difference between the AJH etc. and a random website or a newspaper.. i dont care if the article is published on freakin CNN.. that doesnt make it reliable... not unless there are scientific evidence that support them...

Nutrition is something I (!!) am not ignorant for........ since ur giving ur opinion u must be able to support it... if u cant support it u are misleading ppl... keep ur opinion to urself if u cant support it...

Z3R0-CooL

02-12-2004, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Tivon
http://www.earthsave.org/news/bloodtyp.htm

It's a good read.:thumb

good read although i dont agree with him/her being against eating meat.. i will be checking his/hers references soon..

eire1274

02-12-2004, 10:36 AM

Reuters Health Article (http://www.lowcarb.ca/articles/article148.html)

University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine Study (http://www.annecollins.com/atkins-diet-weight-loss-study.htm)

University of Pennsylvania Medical Center (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030522083022.htm) (different study than above)

Mayo Clinic Publication of Independant Study (http://www.heartinfo.org/nutrition/atkins103097.htm)

Duke University Study (http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/cwh/PDFs/news/Atkins_Diet_Study_SFChron_11-19-02.pdf) PDF

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN interview (http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/diet.fitness/11/19/otsc.atkins.diet/)

Associated Press Article, published in USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-11-18-adkins_x.htm)

Z3R0-CooL

02-12-2004, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by eire1274
Reuters Health Article (http://www.lowcarb.ca/articles/article148.html)

"Atkins diet and low carbohydrate diet resources provided free for information purposes, NOT as medical advice."

University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine Study (http://www.annecollins.com/atkins-diet-weight-loss-study.htm)

I know atkins is effective... never said it wasnt.. increased HDL and lowered LDL in the first months are associated with the weight loss. read the study i posted... it clearly shows what happens after a while

University of Pennsylvania Medical Center (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030522083022.htm) (different study than above)

"This larger study of 360 participants will help us more fully assess the benefits and risks of low-carbohydrate diets on bone mass, kidney function, arterial function and exercise tolerance,” Foster said."

incomplete...

Mayo Clinic Publication of Independant Study (http://www.heartinfo.org/nutrition/atkins103097.htm)

did u actually read it????
"The researchers don't know exactly how many calories patients consumed because participants were not required to precisely record their fruit and vegetable intake. The scientists estimate each meal contained at least 600 calories for a total daily intake of 1,800 calories. Almost all of the weight loss resulted from reduced caloric consumption, they believe.

Overall, the diet resulted in decreases in weight and body fat and participants kept blood-fat levels in check, the study found.

Not everyone will be persuaded by the results of the study, Hays says. "It's very small, it's very short and it's uncontrolled," he concedes.

Amy Joy Lanou, nutrition director at the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, is among the skeptics. "I'd be very interested to see what happens with these individuals if the study was taken out over a year," she says."

Duke University Study (http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/cwh/PDFs/news/Atkins_Diet_Study_SFChron_11-19-02.pdf) PDF

again i never said atkins in not effective.. its just not healthy.. read the last 4 paragraphs.. ur posting studies without reading them?

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN interview (http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/diet.fitness/11/19/otsc.atkins.diet/)

u dont know how to read???
"GUPTA: One really important (thing) about Atkins I need to point out is besides just the high fat -- and we're talking 60 percent of your diet coming from fat, less than 20 grams of carbohydrates -- there are also recommendations of the Atkins (diet) that a lot (of people) don't abide by.

One of the big ones, you have to take a fish oil supplement with the diet. We know fish oil is good. We know fish oil lowers cholesterol. People on this Atkins diet were given the fish oil. People on the AHA diet were not. "

Associated Press Article, published in USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-11-18-adkins_x.htm)

every other paragraph drs say that atkins is not recommended...... nough said

eire1274

02-12-2004, 12:36 PM

Every article that I posted showed pros and cons. Yes, I can ****ing read, you moron.

I am content with my own value as a human being, enough so that I am secure in posting balanced information, not just stuff skewed to support ONLY my own view.

I'm done with you.

eire1274

02-12-2004, 12:55 PM

Having rethought my last reply, would a moderator kindly remove my offensive statement in the post above. I tried to edit it but too much time has passed.

wazman

02-12-2004, 01:00 PM

I believe we've all just learned a valuable lesson on why the edit function has a 10 minute time limit...

wazman

02-12-2004, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Whisp[TR]
i can understand his frustrations though having seen the other topics

Yeah... So can I.

Tivon

02-12-2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
1) some ppl might want to gain weight
2) not if u want to gain muscle
3) wrong if u are a bodybuilder.. i take 130gr sugar post workout
4) Agreed
5) Agreed
6) Dont avoid carbs..... take quality carbs depending on the type of exercise

the rules u mentioned are for the couch potato...

Perhaps I mislabeled my little chart?

“These are a few simple rules about controlling body fat weight: (Not muscle weight)”

Even for a body builder you shouldn’t take in more carbohydrates than needed.. IMHO.

If your ‘zonking out” then add more carbs because after 4 to 5 hours of weight lifting I know the feeling.

I’ve almost lived at the YMCA from age 14 to 22 and I’ve seen all sorts of people come in and go. There are many people that like to load up and get big muscles very fast. Then they stop and get fat and spend years trying to lose what they have put on. When I say avoid carbs this is more in line with people that are already a few pounds fat and need to lose some weight. But for a body builder, I’m sure you would just zonkout hard avoiding any carbs in your diet. When I talk about controlling blood sugar this is to get those “cuts.” Again weight gain for a body builder is not the same as for the average guy trying to cut away some fat to see what they already do have. Maybe it’s just me but I like people to have a lean, strong and long lasting dense muscled body.

So again, there are many body types and some people will find out that they need to focus on one side more than another. For most of us older people should focus more on blood sugar to control weight gain. For alot of younger people this tends not to be a problem and all they need to do is eat balanced diet of meats and cards and vegs.;)

Tivon

02-12-2004, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
good read although i dont agree with him/her being against eating meat.. i will be checking his/hers references soon..

I would still eat meat man..lol.:D

They had some good points about VEGAN eaters that start when they are kids do okay without meats later in life.

Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time
winner) Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian

Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex

Last sighting of Tyrannosaurus Rex: 100.000.000 B.C. :p

Z3R0-CooL

02-13-2004, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by Tivon
Perhaps I mislabeled my little chart?

“These are a few simple rules about controlling body fat weight: (Not muscle weight)”

Even for a body builder you shouldn’t take in more carbohydrates than needed.. IMHO.

If your ‘zonking out” then add more carbs because after 4 to 5 hours of weight lifting I know the feeling.

I’ve almost lived at the YMCA from age 14 to 22 and I’ve seen all sorts of people come in and go. There are many people that like to load up and get big muscles very fast. Then they stop and get fat and spend years trying to lose what they have put on. When I say avoid carbs this is more in line with people that are already a few pounds fat and need to lose some weight. But for a body builder, I’m sure you would just zonkout hard avoiding any carbs in your diet. When I talk about controlling blood sugar this is to get those “cuts.” Again weight gain for a body builder is not the same as for the average guy trying to cut away some fat to see what they already do have. Maybe it’s just me but I like people to have a lean, strong and long lasting dense muscled body.

So again, there are many body types and some people will find out that they need to focus on one side more than another. For most of us older people should focus more on blood sugar to control weight gain. For alot of younger people this tends not to be a problem and all they need to do is eat balanced diet of meats and cards and vegs.;)

exactly... depending on the goals one has his/her diet should be in order to make it possible to meet those goals.

Z3R0-CooL

02-13-2004, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Tivon
I would still eat meat man..lol.:D

They had some good points about VEGAN eaters that start when they are kids do okay without meats later in life.

Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time
winner) Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian

Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex

Last sighting of Tyrannosaurus Rex: 100.000.000 B.C. :p

No vegetarian will ever have success in either bodybuilding, powerlifting.. these guys are in grams of anabolic steroids and take ALLLLLL their protein from protein supplements and some of them from eggs and milk... thats no way to live...

"Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex"

YOU NEVER MET ME!:devil :devil :devil :devil :devil

LOL!! I Want some animal flesh!! mouhaahahah :KICK ASS

Z3R0-CooL

02-13-2004, 02:37 AM

Whisp[TR],.. some the links that were given has some references and some Drs in it.. i know its not a proper research but it was used by eire1274 to prove that atkins is safe when these articles argue that there are not enough data to prove that... so the articles that were posted were not either supporting or condemning atkins..

hence even if they were reliable they could not have been used as proof that atkins is safe.. NOT EFFECTIVE!!!! again i know ITS EFFECTIVE!!!!!!! but it is not safe..

then i got that "Every article that I posted showed pros and cons. Yes, I can ****ing read, you moron.

I am content with my own value as a human being, enough so that I am secure in posting balanced information, not just stuff skewed to support ONLY my own view."

fair enough.. i know that ppl get pissed when they cant prove something that they think its correct.. i get that but i avoid claiming things that have no proof.... Just like God... noone can prove that God exists but yet most ppl get seriously pissed off when someone says that god doesnt exist and that they got no ways of proving it.. we all know that...

i wasnt offended by his post.. it takes a lot of effort to offend me..

that goes for ALL of you in here including ME: just cause it on the net that doesnt make it reliable information.. And just because it in a book it still isnt reliable either unless there are scientificly proven evidence that the claims are correct....

Tivon

02-13-2004, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
No vegetarian will ever have success in either bodybuilding, powerlifting.. these guys are in grams of anabolic steroids and take ALLLLLL their protein from protein supplements and some of them from eggs and milk... thats no way to live...

"Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex"

YOU NEVER MET ME!:devil :devil :devil :devil :devil

LOL!! I Want some animal flesh!! mouhaahahah :KICK ASS

Now that I think about it, I eat meat just about everyday. Sometimes there are greens and breads, but then I add meat to them...Dam them criters are just so tasty!:p

Hmmm... chicken wings.:o

I just had a thought! When the Ants eat the Atkins guy, do they lose weight?:KICKASS

Z3R0-CooL

02-13-2004, 09:06 AM

should i post my diet for a laugh??

1) egg whites and oatmeal
2) egg white and tuna omelette 1 yolk on 1 tsp olive oil
3) chicken breast + whole grain rice
train
then
4) egg whites or a protein shake(whey) with 130gr(depending on ones weight) glucose
5) chicken breast and sweetpotatos or Durum 100% wheat pasta..
6) chicken breast or egg whites or yoghurt(rarely)

i eat about 2.5-3.5lbs of chicken a day(some times replaced by beef, fish) about 130gr rice about 700gr sweet potatoes or 200gr pasta....

its about 350-400gr protein(complete(animal flesh:devil)) about 400-450 carbs and about 50-60ish fats..

i am at 190lbs right now 6ft tall.. i have no gut and i can see a 4-pack when i slightly pull my loose skin(from being obese)..

i am starting my diet on monday though so in about 4-5 months i will have a 6pack for sure... by July i will be ripped to sheds.. :devil

i dont drink milk and i dont eat fruit..... veggies are included in most meals.. lettuce, tomatoes, cucumber

i have some almonds quite often.. almonds are richer in EFAs than peanut butter..

eire1274

02-13-2004, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
Whisp[TR],.. some the links that were given has some references and some Drs in it.. i know its not a proper research but it was used by eire1274 to prove that atkins is safe when these articles argue that there are not enough data to prove that...
Were you dropped on your head as a child?

I do not need to prove anything, because I have what I believe (whether about Atkins or God) and can laugh myself to sleep at night thinking about arrogant fools like you.

I posted a series of links, most of which referenced PROPER SCIENTIFICALLY CONDUCTED MEDICAL STUDIES. They were obviously not intended to illustrate only my opinion. I operate on the belief that you should share all of the data and let people decide for themselves.

This time, truly, I'm done with this thread. No more from me. Just one small favor: in the future, don't try to "illustrate my motive" because you obviously can't comprehend someone like me.

Random Guy001

02-13-2004, 11:08 AM

Im glad to have someone in the forum that knows EVERYTHING about health and diet , but for the non believers ZERO COOL could you post your resume so we may all see your personal scientific back ground and medical schooling.

Obviously your a leading reseacher in the field of human diet with years and years of medical experiance. Also how old are you? you must be in your 50s to be able to able to give advice on weight loss and gain at the dieeferent stages of human metabolisim and NOT some sub 20 yr old punk that hasnt had a dose of reality BECAUSE YOUR ADULT METABOLISM HASNT KICKED IN YET BECAUSE YOUR STILL GROWING YOUR PUBIC HAIR

wazman

02-13-2004, 11:15 AM

Z3R0-CooL

02-13-2004, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Whisp[TR]
why wouldnt you eat fruit

it has some needed vitamins

cause fruits have fructose. fructose is a type of sugar that does not get converted into glycogen in the muscles cause the muscles do not have the necessary mechanisms to convert it. fructose is only stored in the liver and when glycogen levels in the liver are full then fructose gets converted into fatty acids and then stored into adipose tissue (body fat)

i eat enough veggies and lots of whole grain foods so i get lots of vitamins that way..

Z3R0-CooL

02-13-2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by eire1274
Were you dropped on your head as a child?

I do not need to prove anything, because I have what I believe (whether about Atkins or God) and can laugh myself to sleep at night thinking about arrogant fools like you.

I posted a series of links, most of which referenced PROPER SCIENTIFICALLY CONDUCTED MEDICAL STUDIES. They were obviously not intended to illustrate only my opinion. I operate on the belief that you should share all of the data and let people decide for themselves.

This time, truly, I'm done with this thread. No more from me. Just one small favor: in the future, don't try to "illustrate my motive" because you obviously can't comprehend someone like me.

i thought you werent going to post in here again ages ago.. anyway... thanx for dropping by

Z3R0-CooL

02-13-2004, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by Random Guy001
Im glad to have someone in the forum that knows EVERYTHING about health and diet , but for the non believers ZERO COOL could you post your resume so we may all see your personal scientific back ground and medical schooling.

Obviously your a leading reseacher in the field of human diet with years and years of medical experiance. Also how old are you? you must be in your 50s to be able to able to give advice on weight loss and gain at the dieeferent stages of human metabolisim and NOT some sub 20 yr old punk that hasnt had a dose of reality BECAUSE YOUR ADULT METABOLISM HASNT KICKED IN YET BECAUSE YOUR STILL GROWING YOUR PUBIC HAIR

when did i say that i know everything about health and diet? post where exactly i said that and ill shut up...

never said i am a scientist, never gave advice about dieting. i just posted the scientificly proved facts, PERFORMED BY QUALIFIED IN THE FIELD DRs that prove that ATKINS DIET IS EFFECTIVE BUT HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN SAFE AND THAT IT CAUSES THAT NASTY SIDE-EFFECTS..

attacking me wont change that so u might want to stay out of this thread

wazman

02-13-2004, 11:52 AM

"Hello, and welcome to the 3DGameman forums. If you'd like to bash someone, press 1. If you'd like to complain, press 2. If you'd like to see a thread be closed, please post in any available topic. An administrator or a moderator will be along shortly."

Z3R0-CooL

02-13-2004, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by wazman
"Hello, and welcome to the 3DGameman forums. If you'd like to bash someone, press 1. If you'd like to complain, press 2. If you'd like to see a thread be closed, please post in any available topic. An administrator or a moderator will be along shortly."

whats ur malfunction? if u dont like the thread just dont post in it....

Z3R0-CooL

02-13-2004, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Whisp[TR]
yeah but you burn off fat doing cardio in which you should do 10 minutes at the start for warm up and a 20 minute cool down of something else cardio

and then the workout it self

im talking about people that work out

you need that vitamin c and whatever else thats in that good for us

yeah ur right but the whole point of bodybuilding is to burn off the already existing fat isnt it?? so why burn necessary calories that u need to build muscle?? fructose is what is called "empty" calories especially if ur dieting.. it would be a good idea to eat a apple though pre-WO to help replinish the lost glycogen in the liver while ur working out.

but i would never eat a banana unless it was POST-WO and only 1 cause 1 medium one has 30gr fructose and its very high on the GI so unless it pwo its really not helping.. thats just me.. i dont tell u to follow what i do.. but i know it has helped me ALOT.... i noticed a massice decrease in bf% when stopped eating fruits..

i dont do cardio when bulking. i read some studies on what i call "my bible" that mentions that it was shown that cardio reduces GH in body when done before weights.. GH is growth hormone which converts into IGF-1 in the liver. IGF-1 is the Insulin Growth Factor which is the most anabolic hormone in the body along with insulin...

i didnt believe it so i read the studies myself and they were right.. So now i only do cardio when dieting and i only do it on the days that i dont do weight lifting.. it works like a charm...

so i do high-reps very light weight as my warm up... and stretsing for warm up and cool down...

thats what i do..... i am not saying u should follow my advice.. always consult a nutritionist.. i did and it seems that i was right about fructose. but what she said is exactly what u said... i burn it off so its ok.. but i want to burn the already existing fat that i got so.......