Car Audio Install

[Artcwolf]

Eire, I started a new thread so that the UPS thread can die like it's supposed to.

What do you think of Coustic amps? I'm thinking of replacing the 620GT Orion with a four channel amp (I'm keeping the 225 HCCA G1).

I don't want to kill myself with cost here but I do want a decent to good amp.

This is the one I'm looking at, and yes, the pic is linked:

<img src=http://images.cardomain.com/products/cou/COU481QE.jpg> (http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/COU481QE)

Specs:

Amplifier Type: Multi-Channel
RMS Power: 60W x 4 @ 14.4 V
Bridged RMS Power: 240W x 2 @ 14.4 V
THD at Rated RMS Power: 0.1%
Speaker Level Inputs: Yes
Preamp Outputs: Yes
Built-In Crossovers: HP/LP
Bass Boost: 0-18 dB
Frequency Response: n/a
Channel Separation: n/a
Signal to Noise Ratio: 100 dB
Fuse Rating: n/a

I just don't know much about Coustic. I could spend a couple hundred more and get a JBL but if this is a pretty good amp, I'd rather go with it for cost reasons. It will be running all four channels to the fronts and rear speakers. I'm going to try to upgrade those to Infinity Kappa series (6x9 rear, 5.25 component front) sometime in the future.

[eire1274]

Coustic is actually decent considering the price. I'd also suggest looking in to Lanzar and Performance Teknique if you can find them, pretty cheap with good performance.

The system I am preparing to assemble for my 3000GT will be all Audiobahn speakers powered by PerfTek amps.

[Tivon]

What size caps does it use?
What sound system do you have (Pioneer)?

[wiltshire]

most decent head units put out 50w x4 so that amp isn't much better

[Artcwolf]

Originally posted by wiltshire
most decent head units put out 50w x4 so that amp isn't much better

There is a large difference in the quality of power output between the head unit and the amp.

The amp will get a lot closer to 60w per channel...possibly exceeding it if it's a quality amp...of clean output power. Most head units sell their products on a high power output but it's not nearly as clean or efficent power as a quality amp.

Be realistic for a moment. Take the Coustic I'm looking at. Look at the size. Compare to a head unit with a built in amp which also has to have the tuner, cd player, XM controls, cd-changer controls, preouts, line level outs, and all the other little goodies in it. The head unit is smaller. There isn't nearly enough room to put the power supply and controls in the head unit for the amp. That greatly affects sq.

[Artcwolf]

Originally posted by eire1274
Coustic is actually decent considering the price. I'd also suggest looking in to Lanzar and Performance Teknique if you can find them, pretty cheap with good performance.

The system I am preparing to assemble for my 3000GT will be all Audiobahn speakers powered by PerfTek amps.

I'll look into those and see what they are being priced at on-line. Thanks for the input.

I'm going to wait until next weekend to pull the dash apart to do the finessing on the the deck install. I want to get the interconnects and the remote wire installed while I've got it apart and I did not get a chance to go pick them up today.

[wiltshire]

Ok then why aren't head units made to take up the entire space and have better amps in them?

[Artcwolf]

Originally posted by wiltshire
Ok then why aren't head units made to take up the entire space and have better amps in them?

The head unit would get too big to be practical and second, heat. Not much cooling going on behind most head units.

[Tivon]

Go with JL ;)

[eire1274]

Artcwolf is exactly right.

The integrated amplifiers can put out a decent amount of power, however the integrated amplifier is very limited in what it can do. At (generally) half volume, the output will sit within .05-.1% THD, .1% being considered the "high" point allowable in amplification. This is the threshhold where distortion will be audible. Push them to the max, and distortion can be as high as 5%, which translates to harsh pops and overdriving.

He is also correct that airflow is very limited inside the dash, and it is very easy to overheat high-power decks. There were several large (double-DIN, 4"x5.25"x8" or more) decks on the market made by Pioneer, Kenwood, Eclipse-Fujitsu, and a few others that did have true high-power amps integrated. They were poor sellers because few vehicles had the dash space for them, and many were recalled after a series of dash fires.

An external amplifier will always produce better, cleaner sound than an integrated. Higher volume levels just make it more obvious to the human ear. The Coustic amp he is looking at can produce 60W x 4 channels without exceeding .05% THD. It can peak (momentary volume spike) to double that without exceeding the limits (clipping or overdriving). What this means is that, turned all the way up, it is still within low-distortion, where the head unit amp can't be more than half-way up.

This is a little simplified. A lot of manufacturers now still display the maximum power for advertising purposes, but "lock" their decks to produce better sound quality. My Sony CD-XM620 is like this; I can turn it up all the way and only just start getting distortion.

Even a cheap amp, however, will be able to deliver higher volume with lower distortion. I recently put together a system for a friend with an Alpine headunit and 3 Profile (el-cheapo) 65wx2 amps driving four Polk Audio wide range speakers and two Polk 8" subwoofers. It's not competition-loud, but it sounds so clean the car actually won an award at a recent local car show in a SQ class, pushing 350w output at a measured .024% THD.

Added: quick car audio terms:
THD=Total Harmonic Distortion
SQ=Sound Quality
SPL=Sound Pressure Load

[Artcwolf]

Originally posted by eire1274
Artcwolf is exactly right.

The integrated amplifiers can put out a decent amount of power, however the integrated amplifier is very limited in what it can do. At (generally) half volume, the output will sit within .05-.1% THD, .1% being considered the "high" point allowable in amplification. This is the threshhold where distortion will be audible. Push them to the max, and distortion can be as high as 5%, which translates to harsh pops and overdriving.

He is also correct that airflow is very limited inside the dash, and it is very easy to overheat high-power decks. There were several large (double-DIN, 4"x5.25"x8" or more) decks on the market made by Pioneer, Kenwood, Eclipse-Fujitsu, and a few others that did have true high-power amps integrated. They were poor sellers because few vehicles had the dash space for them, and many were recalled after a series of dash fires.

An external amplifier will always produce better, cleaner sound than an integrated. Higher volume levels just make it more obvious to the human ear. The Coustic amp he is looking at can produce 60W x 4 channels without exceeding .05% THD. It can peak (momentary volume spike) to double that without exceeding the limits (clipping or overdriving). What this means is that, turned all the way up, it is still within low-distortion, where the head unit amp can't be more than half-way up.

This is a little simplified. A lot of manufacturers now still display the maximum power for advertising purposes, but "lock" their decks to produce better sound quality. My Sony CD-XM620 is like this; I can turn it up all the way and only just start getting distortion.

Even a cheap amp, however, will be able to deliver higher volume with lower distortion. I recently put together a system for a friend with an Alpine headunit and 3 Profile (el-cheapo) 65wx2 amps driving four Polk Audio wide range speakers and two Polk 8" subwoofers. It's not competition-loud, but it sounds so clean the car actually won an award at a recent local car show in a SQ class, pushing 350w output at a measured .024% THD.

Added: quick car audio terms:
THD=Total Harmonic Distortion
SQ=Sound Quality
SPL=Sound Pressure Load

I was waiting for your input. :thumb

You don't know anyone that would want to purchase my Orion 620GT six channel by chance?

[Artcwolf]

Originally posted by Tivon
Go with JL ;)

Nice but expensive. Sometimes I think JL is just in love with their name.

[eire1274]

Originally posted by Artcwolf
You don't know anyone that would want to purchase my Orion 620GT six channel by chance?
I might. How old is it? I'll ask around.

[timie]

Im not educated what so ever in this but I do know somebody who has been in the "feild" for a very long time and could help you alot I think.

you can try him on AIM: STEC06

or go to www.pbnation.com register, and send him a pm. his name on the forums is AutoMaggot

he helps everyone over there :thumb

[Artcwolf]

Originally posted by eire1274
I might. How old is it? I'll ask around.

Very old. Rough guess...13 years.

It was originally designed for someone that did not want to put multiple amps in their vehicle. The thought behind it was that it would be used in applications with possibly stock head units with slightly upgraded speakers and the last two channels bridged to run a small sub. It has a basic crossover built into it.

I know it's not worth much but I would like to get a little for it. It worked well for me and it was working last time I had it hooked up.

It was on the market when the 225 G1 was still going strong.