View Full Version : Thinking of a new camera
Artcwolf
08-23-2004, 06:07 PM
I'm toying around with selling my 5700 and picking up a dSLR. I'm toying with the D100 and the D70, so the question is...which one would you suggest?
Oh, and please don't recommend the Canon as I'm not interested.
egarrard
08-23-2004, 06:33 PM
Easy choice. The D70. It's a better camera all around. It is not a cut-down version, like the 300D. Plus 1/500 flash sync.
Artcwolf
08-23-2004, 06:49 PM
Easy choice. The D70. It's a better camera all around. It is not a cut-down version, like the 300D. Plus 1/500 flash sync.
I've been doing some side by side and that's the direction I'm leaning...if I decide to go that route. I've seen a dual lens kit for the D70 with two Sigma lenses that looks pretty good.
egarrard
08-23-2004, 08:32 PM
What were the lenses and their prices?
Hmmm...why aren't you interested in the 20D. It has outstanding features, unheard of noise level (even at ISO3200), good price, and excellent reviews :What the :What the . I mean, there is nothing wrong with the Nikon cameras, they are excellent as well, but why would you dismiss the Canon :What the
Artcwolf
08-24-2004, 03:49 AM
What were the lenses and their prices?
Nikon D70 w/ dual-lens kit (http://www.abesofmaine.com/viewproduct.asp?id=nkd70k1&l=Pricegrabber)
Sigma 28-80 & 70-300
Artcwolf
08-24-2004, 04:01 AM
Hmmm...why aren't you interested in the 20D. It has outstanding features, unheard of noise level (even at ISO3200), good price, and excellent reviews :What the :What the . I mean, there is nothing wrong with the Nikon cameras, they are excellent as well, but why would you dismiss the Canon :What the
Canon has always disappointed me in their quality. Ever since I used to be heavy into film 15 years ago until my recent purchase of the S400 Canon has yet to impress me. I paid $400 for the S400, had a friend purchase the Nikon 4300 for almost half the price and the Nikon wipes the floor with my Canon. This has just been my personal recent experence with Canon. I'm glad that it was just a $400 camera and not a $1000+ investment. I've got friends that have had the same experence and will use other brands (not just Nikon) other than Canon.
Nikon has yet to fail me. I loved their film camera's and I love their lenses. I know that if I drop that cash on a Nikon, I won't be disappointed. I don't have that faith in Canon. :camera
tanman_sg
08-24-2004, 04:50 AM
I've used a variety of Canon cameras, including the EOS 500, 500N, 300 and so on. They were great, but my Dad's Nikon N75 is just so much better.
Go Nikon!
Canon has always disappointed me in their quality. Ever since I used to be heavy into film 15 years ago until my recent purchase of the S400 Canon has yet to impress me. I paid $400 for the S400, had a friend purchase the Nikon 4300 for almost half the price and the Nikon wipes the floor with my Canon. This has just been my personal recent experence with Canon. I'm glad that it was just a $400 camera and not a $1000+ investment. I've got friends that have had the same experence and will use other brands (not just Nikon) other than Canon.
Nikon has yet to fail me. I loved their film camera's and I love their lenses. I know that if I drop that cash on a Nikon, I won't be disappointed. I don't have that faith in Canon. :cameraI cannot say anything about the quality on Canon products as the 300D is the only Canon product I have owned. I am very happy with it, but like I said, it is the only Canon product I have owned. You will not be dissapointed with the D70 :Thumb I have read a lot of good things about it. The only bad thing that I have read is that it has backfocus issues and maybe that is something you should investigate before making your purchase. I know how you feel though when you have been let down by a product. I had a Kodak 4800 that just couldn't shoot well in low light and when none of the photos turned out of my Son's grade 8 graduation, I said that was it :mad I have not and will not touch another Kodak product again. Anyways, it is good that you are going to DSLR and I am sure that you will be happy with a D70 as it is an excellent camera. Make sure that you post a lot of pic's when you do get it because there are very few pics (if any) of the D70 here and I am itching to see some :KICK ASS
tanman_sg
08-24-2004, 07:26 AM
Well the D70 has a faster shutter speed. A better LCD. It is lighter. Its blackness looks more professional.
The Nikon comes with an LCD Protector.
The D70 can take more frames per second.
I prefer the D70's Power switch, surrounding the shutter. The 300D has it surrounding the mode dial, might not be as easy to switch on in a hurry.
The D70 can also power on faster. Three seconds faster than the 300D, which takes 3 seconds to power on with a good Memory Card. The D70 is virtually instantaneous.
AF Mode on D70 is manually selectable, it is not on the 300D.
D70 has a dedicated AF assist lamp, wheras the 300D uses a strobe from the internal flash.
Self timer on D70 allows longer times before shutter release. D70 has a larger buffer for continuous shooting.
Shutter release is Very fast on D70 compared to just Fast on 300D.
D70 has more accurate colour balance. The 300D has warmer colour tones than in real life.
The D70 is a significant step from the 300D in terms of build quality, features, and so on.
I studied DP-Review
Well the D70 has a faster shutter speed. A better LCD. It is lighter. Its blackness looks more professional.
The Nikon comes with an LCD Protector.
The D70 can take more frames per second.
I prefer the D70's Power switch, surrounding the shutter. The 300D has it surrounding the mode dial, might not be as easy to switch on in a hurry.
The D70 can also power on faster. Three seconds faster than the 300D, which takes 3 seconds to power on with a good Memory Card. The D70 is virtually instantaneous.
AF Mode on D70 is manually selectable, it is not on the 300D.
D70 has a dedicated AF assist lamp, wheras the 300D uses a strobe from the internal flash.
Self timer on D70 allows longer times before shutter release. D70 has a larger buffer for continuous shooting.
Shutter release is Very fast on D70 compared to just Fast on 300D.
D70 has more accurate colour balance. The 300D has warmer colour tones than in real life.
The D70 is a significant step from the 300D in terms of build quality, features, and so on.
I studied DP-ReviewThe D70 is an excellent camera, there is no doubt about that. When I was looking at getting into a dslr it was a tossup between the D70 and the 300D. I did my research for several weeks before deciding on the 300D (I now wish that I would have waited for the 20D as it is the same price as the D70 :Sigh ). Anyways, what influenced my decision was that with the firmware hack, the 300D is pretty much the same as the 10D as it unlocks all the features. The Rebel now has such features as FEC (which is major for me and the D70 does not have this), and Mirror Lock Up which is also a big boost in image quality. And of course the big thing is that the 300D was $500 cdn less. I would never knock the Nikon because if it had been the same price, then I would have had to flip a coin. I was also glad upon my decision when I went to WWE Summerslam in Toronto. This was a big Pay-Per-View event. I had ringside seats and noticed that all the professional photographers that work for the WWE all were using Canon 'L' lenses. The things that I do not like about the 300D is the 3sec startup time and the color of the camera. These things are minor though because the picture quality is excellent. I would not have felt handicapped in any way if I would have gotten the D70 as it too is an excellent camera. If you want to view some pictures of the 300D, you can view them on my photogallery here: http://www.pbase.com/abb1
JCYC5
08-24-2004, 01:11 PM
Canon 300D is great, with the hack, it has features that can beat a D70's. But it's still a hack, if you know what I mean...
If it's the choice between the D70 and the D100, it's a easy choice: D70.
It's better than the D100 in many ways... not as good as the D100 in only one or two... (One rather important one is that the D70 doesn't feel as nice in the hand as a D100)
As for the lens choices, get the Nikon kit lens (The 18-70 one)
Get the Sigma 70-300 APO Super Macro II in addition to that. The 18-70 is one hell of a lens for the price, something the Sigma definetly isn't.
Canon 300D is great, with the hack, it has features that can beat a D70's. But it's still a hack, if you know what I mean...
.It is and it isn't. All the features that the 'hack' brought out are already there :jawsdown ! Technically, the 300D is the same camera as the 10D (same sensor, mirror, internal workings, etc.) but with a cheaper frame and with limited features due to the cameras original firmware. This was done as to not disrupt the sales of their more pricier cameras like the 10D. All the 'hack' is, is the original Canon firmware that has been modified as to not hide the features that this camera already has. Canon has even serviced the camera under warranty with the 'hack' installed because technically, it is still the same firmware, and it does not add something that was not originally in the camera. The features were just hidden. In some cases, Canon has flashed back the standard firmware and in other cases they have just left the hacked firmware.
egarrard
08-25-2004, 05:59 AM
Nikon D70 w/ dual-lens kit (http://www.abesofmaine.com/viewproduct.asp?id=nkd70k1&l=Pricegrabber)
Sigma 28-80 & 70-300Honestly, that's not a good deal. If it was a 35mm camera maybe, but not for a digital camera. Your best bet for a first lens for the D70 is the 18-70 lens they sell. It works out to a 28-105 in 35mm-speak. That 28mm on the Sigma would work out to 42mm, which in not wide enough. The 18-70 is a better all-around lens. (I use my 28-105 a lot more often than I use the 70-300, on my 35mms.)
The 70-300 would be fine, although it's worth it to spend the extra money and get the APO version. It's not that much more.
Personally, I would get the 18-70mm Nikkor to start with, then decide what direction you want to go with other lenses. Get used to the camera first before investing in a lot of lenses.
JCYC5
08-25-2004, 08:27 AM
It is and it isn't. All the features that the 'hack' brought out are already there :jawsdown ! Technically, the 300D is the same camera as the 10D (same sensor, mirror, internal workings, etc.) but with a cheaper frame and with limited features due to the cameras original firmware. This was done as to not disrupt the sales of their more pricier cameras like the 10D. All the 'hack' is, is the original Canon firmware that has been modified as to not hide the features that this camera already has. Canon has even serviced the camera under warranty with the 'hack' installed because technically, it is still the same firmware, and it does not add something that was not originally in the camera. The features were just hidden. In some cases, Canon has flashed back the standard firmware and in other cases they have just left the hacked firmware.
I don't know... I understand what you're saying and I admit, it is great, even better than the D70...
But imagine you're the CEO of Canon or whatever... You have a brand new d-SLR coming out: The 20D. Would you want your 300D to undermine sales because there's a unofficial, unauthorized firmware flash out there that converts the much-cheaper 300D to a very comparable level?
I know Canon isn't taking action, I don't think they will now. I also know the 20D is much better a camera than the 10D is, but still... if you get what I mean...
I don't know... I understand what you're saying and I admit, it is great, even better than the D70...
But imagine you're the CEO of Canon or whatever... You have a brand new d-SLR coming out: The 20D. Would you want your 300D to undermine sales because there's a unofficial, unauthorized firmware flash out there that converts the much-cheaper 300D to a very comparable level?
I know Canon isn't taking action, I don't think they will now. I also know the 20D is much better a camera than the 10D is, but still... if you get what I mean...
Don't get me wrong, I love my 300D, but I don't think that the 300D with the hack is going to hurt sales of the 20D at all as the 20D has all these features plus 8.2 megapixels, better image quality with lower noise at higher ISO than any other camera in it's class. Right now the 20D is in a class of it's own at the pricepoint that the 300D with the hack or the D70 can't touch.
Artcwolf
08-25-2004, 05:19 PM
Honestly, that's not a good deal. If it was a 35mm camera maybe, but not for a digital camera. Your best bet for a first lens for the D70 is the 18-70 lens they sell. It works out to a 28-105 in 35mm-speak. That 28mm on the Sigma would work out to 42mm, which in not wide enough. The 18-70 is a better all-around lens. (I use my 28-105 a lot more often than I use the 70-300, on my 35mms.)
The 70-300 would be fine, although it's worth it to spend the extra money and get the APO version. It's not that much more.
Personally, I would get the 18-70mm Nikkor to start with, then decide what direction you want to go with other lenses. Get used to the camera first before investing in a lot of lenses.
Thanks for the input. Still playing around with it all and I keep forgetting that 35mm speak is different than digi speak when it comes to lens focal lengths.
The 18-70mm Nikkor would be a good starter lens but I would quickly have to get a good tele. The tele factor was one of the more important decisions when I purchased the 5700 and will continue to play a factor with the D70. I want to reach out and touch someone. :camera
JCYC5
08-26-2004, 08:42 AM
Thanks for the input. Still playing around with it all and I keep forgetting that 35mm speak is different than digi speak when it comes to lens focal lengths.
The 18-70mm Nikkor would be a good starter lens but I would quickly have to get a good tele. The tele factor was one of the more important decisions when I purchased the 5700 and will continue to play a factor with the D70. I want to reach out and touch someone. :camera
Then get the Sigma 70-300 APO Super-Macro II. I have one and it's a great lens for the $150 I spent on it...
Then get the Sigma 70-300 APO Super-Macro II. I have one and it's a great lens for the $150 I spent on it...Show us some pic's!!!! There are hardly any pic's at all of the D70 (that could be a bad thing :What the ). Show us some pictures :Wink
Artcwolf
08-27-2004, 03:26 AM
Then get the Sigma 70-300 APO Super-Macro II. I have one and it's a great lens for the $150 I spent on it...
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into it if I can sell the 5700. Someone took it home to look at it last night. Maybe...
egarrard
08-27-2004, 09:37 AM
Show us some pic's!!!! There are hardly any pic's at all of the D70 (that could be a bad thing :What the ). Show us some pictures :Wink
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/nikon/d70
http://mk31.image.pbase.com/u43/alwaysalady/large/27946709.0922.jpg
JCYC5
08-27-2004, 09:53 AM
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/nikon/d70
http://mk31.image.pbase.com/u43/alwaysalady/large/27946709.0922.jpg
Wow... go Dallas!
http://www.pbase.com/rj_spokane/cheerleaders
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/nikon/d70
http://mk31.image.pbase.com/u43/alwaysalady/large/27946709.0922.jpghmmm...not bad, but not extraordinary. A lot of the pictures seemed kinda soft and was missing sharpness. Hmmm... could be the lens. i dunno, maybe I was expecting better, or maybe I am too picky :Roll Eyes . The cheerleaders were awesome, but even the pictures were kinda soft. I think that that is because they were shot at 1/320s when I would have at least used a 1/500 (probably higher)shutter speed to freeze the action.
tanman_sg
08-27-2004, 06:34 PM
I have done better fireworks with film.
The other pictrues seem nice though.
Artcwolf
08-27-2004, 07:56 PM
hmmm...not bad, but not extraordinary. A lot of the pictures seemed kinda soft and was missing sharpness. Hmmm... could be the lens. i dunno, maybe I was expecting better, or maybe I am too picky :Roll Eyes . The cheerleaders were awesome, but even the pictures were kinda soft. I think that that is because they were shot at 1/320s when I would have at least used a 1/500 (probably higher)shutter speed to freeze the action.
Those were not impressive. I've seen much, much better from the D70.
But, yeah JC...those be our cheerleaders! :clapping
Football season is almost a go...I could go see them...if I didn't want to buy a camera... :taunt
Football season is almost a go...I could go see them...if I didn't want to buy a camera... :taunt
Compromise....get the camera and watch them on TV :Wink
Artcwolf
08-28-2004, 06:07 AM
Compromise....get the camera and watch them on TV :Wink
Have to wait and see if I can sell the 5700. Thats the biggest hold up right now.
Have to wait and see if I can sell the 5700. Thats the biggest hold up right now.Why sell it? I always try to have at least two good ones, so that I will have one for back up. Right now I have the F717 for back up. If I get the 20D, then I will sell the 717 and keep the Rebel as back up.
Artcwolf
08-28-2004, 03:33 PM
Why sell it? I always try to have at least two good ones, so that I will have one for back up. Right now I have the F717 for back up. If I get the 20D, then I will sell the 717 and keep the Rebel as back up.
Money.
I'm going to have only one "big" digital camera and one point and shoot (Canon S400, currently...may end up on e-bay).
I'm drooling over bikes right now, too. I have to keep finances in mind.
Money.
I'm going to have only one "big" digital camera and one point and shoot (Canon S400, currently...may end up on e-bay).
I'm drooling over bikes right now, too. I have to keep finances in mind. :heartbeat Bikes :heartbeat You gotta remember, you only live once :Wink . I always set myself short to get the things that I want.
Artcwolf
08-29-2004, 08:38 AM
:heartbeat Bikes :heartbeat You gotta remember, you only live once :Wink . I always set myself short to get the things that I want.
Go check out the I'm in Love (http://3dgameman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28876) thread in the Auto section. I'm really drooling over two BMW's right now. I also went and looked at the Shadow Aero yesterday. Nice.
Go check out the I'm in Love (http://3dgameman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28876) thread in the Auto section. I'm really drooling over two BMW's right now. I also went and looked at the Shadow Aero yesterday. Nice.The BMW's are awesome, but also pretty much unaffordable (well, to my standards anyways). The Shadow Aero is very nice and affordable :Thumb . It is the one that I was going to get before I got a really good deal on my Ace :KICK ASS
Artcwolf
08-29-2004, 10:19 AM
The BMW's are awesome, but also pretty much unaffordable (well, to my standards anyways). The Shadow Aero is very nice and affordable :Thumb . It is the one that I was going to get before I got a really good deal on my Ace :KICK ASS
The R 1150R Rockster isn't too bad at $11,050. Proper maintaince and their major components have a 200,000 mile lifespan before major overhaul. The BMW's also have a very unique suspension system that eliminates dipping during braking and riding up from the shaft drive during acceleration.
I've talked to way too many old time riders that have ridden every thing from Yamaha to Honda to Harley and once they rode a BMW, that is where they stayed. I've got a neighbor that owns a couple, one is over 30 years old. He also helps maintain some friends BMW's who's bikes are 25+ years old.
I think they are slightly expensive too but after looking at compariable bikes from other manufacturers yesterday, BMW Rockster isn't that much more expensive. It also has lower TCO than almost any other bike. If I get it, I won't be getting rid of it anytime soon. What a dream day that will be, when I get to ride home on it! :heartbeat :luxhello :heartbeat
Yeah, the Rockster is nice, but the K1200s is more my taste and that is unaffordable to me :Sigh , otherwise, I would own it instead of my Shadow Ace. The pricetag is also not the only thing. Down here I would be paying about $2500 /year for insurance for a 1200cc BMW :noway . That is the killer. Before I got my Shadow, I was going to get a brand new Yamaha V-max. I have always loved that bike. I had the cash and was going to go for the purchase when I found out that I was going to have to pay $2100/year for insurance :jawsdown and I have a perfect driving record and had my motorcycle license for 21 years. That is why I opted for the 750 Shadow Ace. It only cost me $839/year for insurance which is a little more affordable :mad .
Artcwolf
08-29-2004, 01:05 PM
Yeah, the Rockster is nice, but the K1200s is more my taste and that is unaffordable to me :Sigh , otherwise, I would own it instead of my Shadow Ace. The pricetag is also not the only thing. Down here I would be paying about $2500 /year for insurance for a 1200cc BMW :noway . That is the killer. Before I got my Shadow, I was going to get a brand new Yamaha V-max. I have always loved that bike. I had the cash and was going to go for the purchase when I found out that I was going to have to pay $2100/year for insurance :jawsdown and I have a perfect driving record and had my motorcycle license for 21 years. That is why I opted for the 750 Shadow Ace. It only cost me $839/year for insurance which is a little more affordable :mad .
That is insane on insurance. That's way more than what I pay for my car! Or even when I had my car and my suburban both full coverage insured!!
The K1200s is a kickass bike but it is way beyond what I can afford. I like the V-Max, but I'm just a big Honda, BMW, Ducati and Aprilia fan. I'm getting to like the naked's a lot. I also like the CBR 600F4i but the low/no maintainance BMW shaft drive is just a dream.
We'll have to wait and see what I end up with...if I can get anything at all. :shifty
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